How to keep it spicy when you have kids with Carin Rocking
[00:00:00] Introducing Carin Rockind
Dr. Willow: Welcome. We are so excited because today we are here with Carin Rockind, who is a positive psychology expert, powerful motivational speaker, and a caring coach who empowers people to pursue their dreams and bring their best selves to work and to life. She helps empower people to thrive and works in big companies like Amazon, Capital One, Avon, LinkedIn, and she is also the Founder of Women's Global Happiness Day, which is a not for profit effort to eradicate the women's depression epidemic worldwide.
So she is so much more than all of that as well. She's currently helping women step into their absolute sovereignty and fullness.
SxR Announcer: Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free. And pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.
Leah: Carin, welcome. So can't wait to dig into all this juicy stuff. Welcome.
Carin: Oh my God. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. It's just so fun. And you guys look so great right there. As soon as I saw you, I'm like, where are we going tonight? I'm on the other side of the country, but let's go.
Leah: So tell us a little bit about your...where do you want to start?
Dr. Willow: Yeah, where did you begin and where are you at now in this sort of transitioning point that you're in.
[00:01:29] Perfect should mean Happy... Right?
Carin: So. I began as that little girl. Let's just go back to when I was two. I really began as that little girl who just wanted a perfect life and that was my definition of happiness. I'm the third. My parents always said they got it right the third time. I know, which is like, I'm so amazing. And I was like, oh my God, what if I get it wrong? I can't get a B! And so it was just like anything I had to do to live a perfect life, would make me happy. My parents have been happily together, like so happy together, they've been married 56 years, but together since they were 14.
Leah: Wow.
Carin: My grandparents, may they rest in peace, we're married 68 years, holocaust survivors. I come from this long lineage of get married, have your kids, and you will be happy. And so I did that. I got married at 22. Tall, dark, handsome lawyer, we had a big house in the burbs by the time I was 24. Golden retriever, we made Thanksgiving dinner. It was like life looked perfect.
But I was aching inside. I would cry almost every day. It felt so off. I felt so empty. I'm like, you know, I was so unhappy and my husband would be like, what's wrong with you? We have everything we have ever wanted, and we did. And I thought there was something wrong with me.
And so it kept feeling to me like, what's missing is I feel like I'm here for something. I know I was put on this earth for something and he and I ended up getting divorced at 26. And that was when my other girlfriends were getting married or starting to think about having a baby or whatnot.
That began my journey to say, well, if that didn't make me happy. If what Cosmopolitan Magazine said would make me happier Ladies Home Journal is what my mom read at home. Like, what would?
And I began my own journey and really early on I started volunteering with high school girls and like came alive seeing each one of these girls.
And it was like no matter what her parents wanted for her, or if she felt fat or she felt ugly, it was like I could see her and love on her. And I felt so invigorated. And I started communicating with other young divorced women because I needed friends and I found them online. And I it was like my whole life became empowering girls and women.
But this is almost 20 years ago, I got divorced in 2001. I had never heard of a life coach. I had no idea. There was no Facebook. It was like, what does this mean and how do I do it? And the long story short, I couldn't figure it out.
I became so depressed. I tried getting a book published. I was rejected, like all these different avenues. So I just went back to more lawyers who drove BMWs, who wore golf shirts. It was just like, how do I live that? How do I be happy?
[00:04:26] Maybe you're Bipolar?
Carin: Until one day I went to my psychiatrist and I was begging her every month for more medication, and I said, please give me lithium. Maybe I'm bipolar. And she closed her notebook and she said, Carin, you're not bipolar. You have all these dreams you talk about and you've never followed them. Good psychiatrist.
Leah: Yes.
Carin: So one by one, I started following my dreams. I had always dreamt of going abroad in college, but never did because I was basically married.
Husband in college. I wasn't married, but I basically was. And so I told my boss, I have to go away for mental health. I'm going to Paris and I can come back and work for you or not. And he's like, see you. So I like went to live in Paris for a month. I ran a marathon, even though I wasn't a runner at all. I went from zero to 26 miles and six months and started doing all these things, but I wasn't yet pursuing this like dream of empowering women.
And then one day I was walking home from a bad blind date in Cleveland, Ohio. It was July 2nd, 2008. And I put my key in my condominium door and I suddenly felt hot breath on my neck.
And I turned around and I was nose to nose with this young man. And I'm like, are you going inside? And he's looking in my eyes. And then he looked down at my stomach and he pulled a gun and I scream and I fall to the floor and I'm going, please don't hurt me. Please don't hurt me. And I had that moment of I haven't yet pursued that dream of empowering women.
Leah: Wow.
Dr. Willow: I have chills all over my body.
Carin: I mean, sometimes it still makes me cry. I tell this story like a hundred times and so I said to myself, if I live, I promise I will pursue that purpose no matter what. And just at that moment, the man took my purse & he ran.
Dr. Willow: Wow. That was crazy story.
Carin: Right? And so I was like, all right, I don't know how to pursue this dream, but I'm going to. And I shortly thereafter, someone introduced me, someone on Facebook was like, it was so positive, have you seen this?
[00:06:26] Best Decision of my Life
Carin: It was a link to University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Martin Seligman, who started Positive Psychology.
I saw they had a master's program. I applied by the grace of the Goddess, I got in. And I left my six figure corporate job and became a poor graduate student at 36, with my dad telling me, that is the stupidest decision I have ever heard. And it was the best decision of my life.
And then I built up from there. It was 10 years ago. And the first iteration has been all about purpose, because I was like, purpose, purpose, purpose. And I have been blessed to be able to empower thousands of women at this point around their purpose. I got to be a happiness guru on a SiriusXM show for five years.
And speaking at the companies that you said and what's deeply underneath all of that for me and always has been, (like a lot of my clients), I still don't know what I wanna do with my life, but damn, I feel like a powerful woman. And I'm like, that's really what I'm here for.
And so, I'm 47 now and I've been Purpose Girl for all these years.
I became a mom at 45, which I totally would love to talk about Sex Reimagined with fertility journey because there's nothing less sexy than fertility. When it's like, oh honey, right now, okay. Like, no, no, no, I'm ovulating this minute. We have to, you have to get it up now. Like there's nothing less sexy than that.
So I can talk about kind what we did around that. And I had miscarriages and I became a mom at 45. And so Sex Reimagined with all of that new mama hood, I'm totally happy to talk about any of that.
Leah: Cool.
[00:08:00] Institute of Woman
Carin: And with all of that, I am in the moment, like literally you guys announced the Institute of Woman, so like, hello, there we go. I'm in the process of a rebirth myself that it is more than purpose, my own journey. Because a lot of what I've done by studying with Mama Gina, studying with Leah, going to the Tantra Institute, has been owning my wholeness as woman. Sensuality, sexuality, my darkness, my fierceness, my rage, all my grief. And that's the next iteration of what I'm here to teach is a woman's wholeness. And bringing in the pieces of every aspect of ourselves and empowering women to be the priestess leaders that the world needs now because things are really af, I don't know if I can swear here, but things are really fucked up. And so what's needed now are embodied feminine leaders who are like, they're in touch with their wild woman. And their wise woman and their high priestess and their inner mama, whether they ever have children or not. It's like our wholeness is what's needed now.
Dr. Willow: Yes.
Carin: That's a long story, but there you go.
Leah: That's a great story. Thank you so much. I see so many of these beautiful processes that your life has been guiding you through. That spirit's been guiding you through.
Carin: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:09:03] The Origin Story of the Pussy Oracle
Leah: So tell us about Sierra how this came to you?
Willow: Yeah. How did this come through for you?
Sierra: Oh, wow. Well, first and foremost, I just love what you just shared that is so precious and special to hear that reflection, for sure. And it's so true and spot on. And as magical as this experience is as magical as how it got downloaded and shown to me.
And I'll do a quickie cliff notes version of it because it's a very big and powerful story. But, in 2016, I was fed up with the brands that I was leading at the time. I felt out of alignment from what I was bringing. I was helping women with their pleasure, helping them with self-love, with their femininity, all sorts of magical things. But I did not have pussy on the radar at all as part of that.
And lo and behold, I blew up that brand. I was just like, I had to unplug. I had to reset. I had to come into more of a humble space of who do I "be" in the world versus trying to.... I like to say, be the light versus trying to be in the light.
It was a real come to Mary Magdalene moment, I guess.
Leah: I haven't heard of that yet. Instead of come to Jesus, come to Mary Magdalene honey.
Sierra: Exactly.
Leah: Come on.
Sierra: And so I spent four months just in quiet. Like, who am I? Who do I be? Who can I be without having to try to be somebody?
And in that, it was ripe for the picken, I had a video back in 2008 on YouTube, on female ejaculations that went viral. There's like a lot of history that sort of led up to that moment. But I was in denial and kept poo-pooing anything to do with genitalia whatsoever.
And after four months of being in my own internal journey, I feel like Spirit knocked me on the head, really.
It started by this event that I had. I had this red tent temple thing set up from a previous retreat that I had rented the house the next night to do a different retreat. And during that time there was a woman there that had been a little bit of an instigator on the journey.
She was joking around. We were having this other ceremony on this third night, two different events, and she's like, "Hey, I want to see your pussy. Let's all look at each other's pussies", very like cute and young, "let's just look at each other's pussies." And I was like, Oh geez. All right. What are we going to do here? I was like, all right, let's take a look.
Leah: Everyone drop your drawers. Just lift your skirt.
Sierra: Everyday average thing that happens. But she was in that realm, in that conversation. So I'm like, well, if we're going to do this, let's make it reverent and sacred. And we happen to have this altar and this red tent room set up. So I was like, well, let's pull up a thing.
Willow: Perfect, perfect place to look live in each other's pussies in the red tent.
Leah: Right on the alter.
Willow: Right. I love it.
Sierra: So we pull up the bed, I undress, I spread my legs, it's just her and another woman. And they were just like, "What? Does your pussy look like that? My pussy doesn't look like that."
I'm like, "well, what does your pussy look like?" And at that time, I hadn't really seen many up close and personal pussies myself. And so we were like, Huh... we need to do this, like, everybody needs a seat in this worship chair. And we're like, let's do it. And then of course something happened, somebody distracted us, somebody came into the room. It never happened where they got to be in the chair.
But all night it was like the seed had been planted.
Leah: Wow.
Sierra: It was like, no, this is important. Women need to know. If we're not alike, and we think we're alike, or we don't know that we don't look like each other, or... there's something here.
Throughout the night I kept connecting with women as I went. There was like 16 people, maybe eight women or so at this gathering, and I would come up to them and I'd be like, "Hey, we have a pussy worship station. Do you want to be in the station?" And they're like, "oh, I don't know about that." Thanks, but no thanks.
And I was like, I don't even know what I'm saying. I don't even know what I would do. Sure enough, the end of the night came close to the end of the night and I bumped into this woman. I barely knew her. She was a friend of a friend and I was like, Hey, by the way, pssst..., you know, I was still on it. And she's like, "I'd like that."
And I'm like, okay, well... let's get in there. You're my first yes! Like I've been trying all night. I didn't even know why. I was like, something overcame me.
And I got her in the worship seat and I started channeling this ritual, which is still very true to what we do today. And what really was the magic in it all, was that I'm in the middle of just witnessing her, just holding space, just describing what we see, which is very much what we do today, but now we know there's shapes and symbols and archetypes and all sorts of things.
And halfway through she was like, do you see my scar tissue? I was like, I don't know. I hadn't seen that many pussies up close. So I was like, I don't know. And so then she described
this whole trauma she had and how she had self mutilated. It was a very tragic and sad story and how she felt about her body as a result.
And in that moment, while I was being initiated, that was like the real initiatory spot. Because I realized, it's my duty, I'm being called to help this woman who said yes, to cross over from shame, deep shame, physical trauma and shame into a new story. And that's what happened.
I ended up seeing literally the scar tissue. I saw Mother Mary swaddling baby Jesus. There was a whole story through these archetypes that came out. Anyway...
Willow: Wow, you found the right pussy that night. She was the one.
Sierra: It was.
Willow: She was ready. It was initiatory for both of you, it sounds like.
Sierra: It very much was, very much.
And so I got her to the other side. We recreated the story.
I didn't know at the time that I was being shown that story from her vulva itself. I was just being guided. And then at the end, you know, we closed it up. It was really beautiful. It was powerful.
And then the next day she was like, I've been praying for this my whole life to be free of this shame.
And I had just two days earlier led a women's retreat where we didn't do anything around pussy. It was all the old stuff I'd been doing and it's still good stuff, but I was like, in that moment, she had transformed everything. Like it would take months or years sometimes to get women to where she got. I was like, okay, there's something to this. I think I need to follow this thread.
Willow: That's the power of the pussy. It's exponential healing when you're witnessing, when you're the oracle reading, which is totally new to me too. Or going inside and doing Pelvic Floor Sweep Release Work. I mean, you can get through like 10 years of therapy in an hour and a half session.
Sierra: Yeah.
[00:09:26] What's the biggest obstacle to women feeling whole?
Leah: As you've been working with women, what do you think, what do you see over and over again is the hurdle or the obstacle that keeps them from being connected to their wholeness? What's the theme in your experience?
I don't deserve it. It ends up looking like self-doubt. Who am I?
Dr. Willow: Self-worth?
Carin: It ends up looking like self-doubt, but underneath its self-worth. And where did the self-worth issue come from? Lifetimes and generations of our grandmothers and their grandmothers not having a say in who they marry. Not having a say in what happens with their bodies. We look at, this is stuff I've gotten really into studying and being interested in, like, how did it all end up this way? Well, when a dowry was in place for a woman, then our grandmother's, job was to be marriable, which meant she had to look a certain way. She had to not speak her voice, have no opinion. And so it's like this is passed on generation to generation. This is in our bones, this is in our cells. I've been reading a book called, oh Shoot...
Dr. Willow: When God Was a Woman.
Carin: No, but okay, that's next on my list. How did you know?
Dr. Willow: That's a good one. And I was gonna ask the same question you were.
Leah: Oh, really? Really?
Carin: The Woman They Could Not Silence.
Dr. Willow: Oh.
Carin: Who I'm gonna have on my podcast. Because I'm reading this book and I'm fascinated, and it's a historical fiction about a woman whose husband put her in a mental institution against her will, because that's all that used to need to happen was a man, a husband, saying my wife is crazy.
And what made a woman crazy? She had opinions. She wanted her own work. So anyway, here we are. And yes, we in some ways have equal The Woman That Could Not Be Silenced. Did you read it?
Dr. Willow: Not yet, but I'm gonna, it's on the list now.
Carin: Oh my Goddess, book club please.
Leah: Book club.
Dr. Willow: Book club.
Carin: Book club.
And, someone today recommended to me, what did you say? God was a woman?
Dr. Willow: When God Was a Woman.
Carin: Yes. Someone just today said you have to read that.
Dr. Willow: It goes through all the lineages over the eons and passing it all down to where we're sitting at epigenetically now. I mean it's just fascinating.
Carin: It's so fascinating. And so, it's so interesting women still carry the bulk of childcare.
Dr. Willow: Yep.
Carin: The bulk of household care. We make the bulk of purchasing decisions. We really do run the world. And we don't feel like it.
Dr. Willow: And we don't think we're worthy.
Carin: We don't think we're worthy. Like we're birthing every human that's alive and we don't think we're like, we're freaking, we make toenails. Like that's... What?!
Leah: I know.... eyeballs and elbows... I mean...
Carin: Eyeballs and elbows!!
Leah: Crazy town...
Carin: We don't think that we're like so powerful. This is, and so that's really what I see at the root. And I love what you're doing because until we own all of ourselves, big piece, including our sensuality and our sexuality as holy, and sacred, and beautiful, all aspects of it, your kinkiest kinky fantasies. And every aspect of it, we're not gonna feel worthy and in our power.
One aspect, you know, in these different archetypes of the divine feminine is like the mermaid muse, right? That inner joy and I can't tell you when I lead retreats all over the world and how many women will dance, we'll blow bubbles, we'll run into the beach and south beach, we'll run into the ocean naked. And we haven't felt like we're allowed to do that. And so like we have to reclaim every aspect of ourself.
Dr. Willow: And there's a level of safety as well that we have more of now than ever, and only in certain places in the world. It's certainly in many places it's still not safe to run into the ocean naked.
But there's that piece around feeling safe is what allows us to become more whole, to explore these avenues and these shadows and these unconscious parts of ourselves when we have a container of safety that is holding us.
Carin: Absolutely.
Dr. Willow: Which could come in the form of our own sovereignty, or could come in the form of a relationship, can come in all these different forms and it's a layered piece and process.
Carin: It's so layered, it is. And I do a lot of work around sisterhood and I know you do as well. And having that safe sisterhood, I often find that I, and my clients, elevate more when a woman sees them, than even when a man sees them. And you know, I'm talking about a heterosexual woman, any woman really. We, it's like, we're so used to, we've grown up in this world, a society where the patriarchy has told us in order to profit off of us that we're not thin enough, pretty enough, whatever it might be. When a woman sees us, when a woman celebrates us, it's like we heal and we elevate in ways that we can't otherwise.
There's something about that mirror that's so beautiful.
Leah: There's a couple things that are arising as I hear you both make these points around recognition, being seen, feeling safe. in the spirit of letting ourselves go, letting ourselves flow, letting ourselves be free. And my experience is that it happens in multiple places and ways, right?
There's some pieces of that we have to do on our own. It's an inside game. there's a lock and a key that we are the holders of. And it's our job to get that key into that lock, right? And to start, learning how to talk back to those negative thoughts. Learning how to give ourselves permission to be bold, to make a fool of ourselves, to take a risk.
And then there's the immense possibility when you've got a group of women who are all holding keys that happen to fit into some locks too. And it's like jumping into that ocean. Like, how can you go and do that naked and feel safe? Well bring your girls with you and then you've got the team, you've got the tribe, you've got your pack.
Carin: And then you're protected, right? And I love your points. It has to be, first of all, everything you just said, Leah, oh my god, in my body, right? And that it has to be safe. And how many of us have been in unsafe sisterhoods, right?
Leah: Right.
Carin: I mean, woman wounds all over the place and this is where we heal. That's why I love seeing the two of you together. There's like a piece of me that's healing, just seeing your arm around each other. Right? Because that is something I see over and over and over again how many women have never felt like they have a safe place. And so no wonder we don't feel free. We don't feel free when we're anywhere. We don't feel free when we're...
Leah: feel free by our ourselves in our own home.
Carin: And because of... right.
But you know what's amazing? So I have a two-year-old now and he is a boy, not a girl, but I have a two-year-old niece and I've had a niece before, but still I love to watch a two-year-old mind.
Because he wants to see pictures of himself all day long.
Leah: Really? Oh that's so sweet.
Carin: He just thinks he is the cat's meow. He is like, picture Shay. Picture Shay. His name is Shay. Picture Shay, picture Shay. And then like today, he went to the doctor for his two year appointment and he was so brave.
So I made up a song on the way home about Shay being brave. More Shay brave song, more Shay song. He wants everything...
Dr. Willow: ...all about him, no lack of self worth there.
Leah: Well ego identity is a really important part of getting safe in the body.
Carin: Absolutely. And I'm like, okay, now how do we protect this when he gets around other kids when he goes to school, and maybe, I don't know what he's gonna be like, right?
We've thought about moving to Florida. Well, I'm not gonna move to Florida as long as he, if he's gay and can't talk about being gay, or books are banned there.
So I'm just watching how our purest state is self worth. That's our purest truth. And for a million reasons, we've lost it.
Or maybe I should say, Let me rephrase it, it's been covered up.
Dr. Willow: That's right.
Carin: But this process, and what you are doing here, and what we're all doing as a collective, is we are uncovering to our deepest truth and ultimately setting ourselves free and each other.
Leah: You know, sometimes I ponder like, why are these painful, devastating states of beliefs, like the stories that we make up?
I totally relate to feeling a sense of worthlessness, and self-hatred, and truly believing that I'm hideous, ugly, unlovable, all this pain wrapped up in all those words, and having to go through the process of uncovering the wholeness. That's always been there, I just didn't know, right? And I think about why, why, why?
And I'm like, you, I've had a chance to study positive psychology. As I was meeting you, I was just starting that process. So it's another place that our paths cross and what came to mind that really was a breakthrough for me, and I'm wondering what you would add to this?
[00:19:41] If there's no escaping pain, what's it there for?
Leah: Is that the studies show that people who haven't experienced a lot of adversary in their life or overcomed obstacles, their scores for life satisfaction is lower than those people who have faced obstacles and have overcome them. There's something about life rewarding you when you get through something difficult, and that's the only way that I can make sense of these really painful places that the human experience takes itself to.
I don't think there is any escaping experiences of unworthiness and shame. I think somehow there's a built-in mechanism that hopefully is pushing us towards the relief, the sensation of relief when we get through a contraction. And I don't know, I'm just teasing this out in the moment.
What are your, what have you learned about that? What's true? Or not true?
Carin: Ooh, so good. So juicy. So juicy. So I'm a firm believer that every moment of our life has been for purpose. The really good yummy stuff shows us what we love, what lights us up, what we want more of, what and the really hard stuff, done well gives us wisdom. Gives us strength, gives us courage. Gives us a point of connection with someone else who's been there. And from that vantage point, it is the only way I've been able to make sense of my life. And, and my history.
So my grandparents were Holocaust survivors, as I said, and something really messed up and weird.
So my grandparents dated in the old country in Vienna and My grandmother said my grandfather was too nerdy. My grandfather decided my grandmother was too flirty and not wife material.
Dr. Willow: A nerd and a flirt.
Leah: Wow.
Carin: Because she like never wanted to study, she only wanted to go out dancing. They weren't marriage material. And then Hitler invaded Austria and they each had their own story of survival. Each ended up in New York City, not knowing anyone. Wow. By the powers that be, they reconnected and three months later they were married in 68 years of marriage.
Dr. Willow: Oh my God. That's an incredible story. Wow.
Carin: Which means, no Hitler know me. Now I would give up my life for the 11 million people who died at his hands and the hands of everybody who helped him. But when you think about that, it's like, why? Well, there is a Harvard and Cambridge trained researcher named Dr Ali Binazir and he's a mathematician and he's come up with some sort of mathematical equation that there's a one in 400 quadrillion chance that you're alive, based on a sperm meeting an egg. And now that I've had multiple miscarriages, like all the stuff that we learned in seventh grade health class about how easy it is to get pregnant, right?
You look at a boy and you will get pregnant is not true. For that specific egg when a woman, we have many eggs in each cycle, and a man ejaculates how many sperm? Millions.
Leah: 200 million.
Carin: Thank you. You all would know.
Leah: Each time.
Carin: Each time. So how is it that sperm met that egg on that day? And even though there's like a one in five chance of miscarriage survived, and even though it's like, holy shit, it's, and I think about it's a miracle. And my grandparents surviving the Holocaust, or how did I end up here with that sperm and that egg? So I share all that because it's really put perspective on things.
So I was abused by my first love at 17, who was a girl. Oh. And I would not have told anybody that I was in love with a girl at 17. I made up a different name for her for friends who weren't in school with me, like all of it, right? And then she ended up physically abusing me.
And then I ended up getting married to like tall, dark, handsome lawyer when I was 22, divorced to 26, gun robbery at 34, miscarriages in my forties.
The only way I've been able to make sense of my life, is that it's all been for purpose. And so I would love to say we don't need any hardship. In order to live a really like satisfying life, and I just don't think that's the journey that our soul was on. Like I thought, well, one day when I get up to the pearly gates, if I get to ask the Goddess / God, whatever a question, like what I would ask, why did you make it so hard?
I used to say that. But now I've come to realize that... so I firmly believe that we were put on this planet at this time, that it's like our souls knew that there would be this time when things would be really messed up. And that what would be needed now is exactly the culmination of all the lifetimes that our souls have had, and that what would be needed now, and that we've all been in training until this moment.
And that all of the really hard stuff got us to this moment because of the wisdom and the courage and the strength that we have gathered from all these lifetimes. And now we're gathering together in opportunities like what you're doing here and what I do and what all of our people are doing.
[00:25:05] Post Traumatic Growth
Carin: And now because we are what is needed now to truly bring the world back to love. And so I think that our souls came here knowing we're gonna have this difficult experience and it's gonna be exactly what we need. And at least that's the only way I can make sense of it. And that's why I think it's so satisfying.
So we, from the scientific perspective, most people know about post-traumatic stress disorder. Fewer people know about post-traumatic growth. And yet we all... that is a scientific term by researchers. And if you think about it, we all know so many stories, like the best books, the best autobiographies, the best TED Talks, the best movies are the hero's journey that someone's been through challenge, but they came out better.
And now there's this term post-traumatic growth, and I'm like obsessed with it. I teach it as pain to purpose. How do we take the hardest shit of your life and turn it into fertilizer for something amazing and that we all can find this growth and this, you know, whether it is that it leads us to a greater appreciation of life or to better relationships or a new sense of spirituality or purpose.
And that's that meaning of the difficulty, it's what leads to that higher life satisfaction. And I think when we can look at our whole life that way of like, oh, I needed that in order to be here. We can thrive.
Dr. Willow: It can even get exciting. Like I'm in the middle of a squeeze right now. You know? And I was like, oh fuck, here comes this squeeze. It was like all the lead up and all the buildup to the contraction of life.
Carin: Yes, yes, yes.
Dr. Willow: So the anticipation of it gets really challenging, but then when you're in it, you're like, okay, what can I do with it? How can I get inside of the squeeze, you know?
Carin: Yes. I love you're calling it a squeeze. She got a squeeze and I'm finding myself doing kegel's. I'm like kegeling as we squeeze it out, yeah. I so get that Willow. I have, I actually had a really, I've had a really difficult few months. I had family members kind of take all their stuff out on me, and call me gross and disgusting for what I post on social media. And I have been posting a lot more sexuality and I have been talking about changing the world and feminism and a woman's right to be wealthy and like everything. And it really, it was like my worst fear. Brought me to my knees. My biggest fears have been about being rejected if I'm really out there.
Dr. Willow: It's a hard one. And especially with this kind of work.
Carin: Right.
Dr. Willow: It's a lot of bravery.
Leah: And we've been groomed for a lot of generations to be pleasing.
Carin: To be pleasing. Which means really being silent. And the coming out of that. So I just, I resonate with where you are right now, Willow and it's like, I know what's on the other side for you. Because I know I was in a moment of on my knee surrendering. And just like, what the hell do you want from me, goddess? And what's come on the other side is this new rebirth of my work and my purpose and it's so much more exciting now.
Dr. Willow: Yeah, it is. And if you go into that contraction of life, that squeeze of life with intention, like you're gonna come out the other side with something more. So right now my biggest intention is to take my faith to the next level, which it's already at a high level. So I'm excited to see what's gonna come out on the other side.
Carin: Right.
It's so interesting. I used to, because I just wanted to be happy and perfect and like whatever the Sweet Valley High girls were doing or whatever Cosmopolitan Magazine said did you guys read Sweet Valley High? Am I older than you?
Leah: That sounds familiar.
[00:29:01] Contractions, Depression, and Positive Psychology
Carin: That was a book series when we were teenagers, when I was a teenager. Anyway, like the whole like perfect teenager, be a cheerleader, student government, I did the whole thing. So I never wanted downs. And whenever I went through, now what I know is a contraction, but I used to just be get me out of this as fast as I can. I don't want this. Push it away.
It was like, I just wanted happy, happy, happy, happy. And then of course, the irony is I got my master's degree in happiness, but whatever. And the hilarious thing is I had a C-section. . So I never actually had to experience a contraction.
Dr. Willow: The contraction. Oh.
Carin: And I have thought, and I was required to have a C-section because I had a very dangerous, rare pregnancy condition that could have, and almost did kill my baby in childbirth.
So I wasn't allowed to have any contractions because it could have killed him.
Dr. Willow: Wow. Did you never feel any during any of the miscarriages either?
Carin: Contractions? No. Yeah, it was early. It was eight weeks, both times. So it's really interesting how my body even rejected contracting.
Dr. Willow: Interesting.
Carin: During this thing that is like part of the birthing process.
Leah: Wow. Wow.
Carin: And the learning for me in that, there's other stuff that comes with cesareans, right, cesarean sections? I recently married my darkness.
Dr. Willow: Well done.
Carin: I'd already done a self marriage ceremony, but this was like, oh, it's time for me to see that all of this is part of what makes me beautiful and what makes all of us beautiful.
Leah: Oh my gosh, I'm writing down, I'm married my darkness. Because you're gonna have to do a whole nother episode on that.
Carin: I would love to. Yes. And yeah. It's interesting because when I started my positive psychology journey, when I started all of it, anything about my sensuality, sexuality was like private.
I wasn't even out that I'd ever been in love with a girl or that I was bisexual. It was just like, please find me a lawyer, a male lawyer who wears golf shirts and I will be happy.
Because it was like, that was what was supposed to be in my Jewish upbringing. And my journey was I got my master's in positive psychology from my fancy Ivy League university and I graduated and I'm like, okay, but why do I still feel bad?
And it was because, and things have really changed since in positive psychology. It was all about the mind. And the heart and the body were really missing. And so my next step,
Leah: It's the basis for most therapy in the west. It's about the mind.
Carin: The mind.
Leah: We wonder why we're in it for 20 years. We're not addressing the where the body is holding.
Carin: Yeah, exactly. And I have a theory about depression and that we are depressed, we're pressing down our truth. We're pressing down our freedom. That we're being held back in all the places. We're pressing down parts of ourself that are not okay with the world, like the mermaid in us, or this the wild woman or the sensual goddess in us.
We're pressing down and so no wonder we're so fucking depressed.
Leah: Yes. That's right. So true.
Carin: then I started studying self-compassion with Kristen Neff. And then I met a mentor who used the word priestess with me. And I said, I don't know what that is, but I'm in.
[00:32:30] Oh, My Goddess, I'm a Sexual Being.
Leah: Ding, ding, ding!
Dr. Willow: Your soul is like I know that.
Carin: Yeah, that! And I went on a 13 moon journey into the mysteries of the divine feminine. And that was where I went, oh, my goddess, I'm a sexual being. Like, really?
Dr. Willow: Wow. Was this before your fertility journey?
Carin: Yes.
Dr. Willow: Okay.
Carin: No, before. When was I first pregnant? Well, you know what, probably right alongside.
Dr. Willow: Right during.
Carin: Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think... my husband, my current husband, and hopefully last. I dunno what the universe is gonna do, right?
But he had so many experiences sexually when he was younger. He had longer hair than I do, and followed the dead and been in orgies, and been with men, and been with women, and now he identifies as a cis gender, you know, male.
But he, made it safe for me to be like, oh yeah, me too. Except I haven't, I've been with a girl once when I was 17, but she beat me. And you know what, that's important to me. And now I wanna be in an orgy. But now I'm married to you. What do I do? And so like when I did write my priestess training and we explored the goddess of love, sensuality and we explored the wild Woman, I went, oh my God, I'm the wild woman.
I started masturbating when I was five. I started having sexual fantasies when I was eight. My sexual fantasies were usually about me being a dominatrix or being a man that was forcibly having sex.
Leah: Doming.
Carin: Doming. So, It was like owning it. Then I started studying with Mama Gina, and I did that for a couple of years.
And so, and then Leah, I went to the Tantra weekend with you. And then had a lot of conversation with my husband about what could this look like in our life? You didn't marry me thinking I was gonna want this. And we're trying to have a baby. I'm like, what does that look like?
So it's really been this, it's been a huge piece of Reimagining Sex, it has been a huge piece of my reclamation as woman.
Dr. Willow: Love it.
Carin: Yeah.
[00:34:57] The Fertility Journey & Reimagining Sex when you have a Young Kids
Leah: Yeah. So what is, I mean, now you're at this place in your life and you've got a two-year-old. And one thing we haven't had a chance to unpack is sex with young kids. Not sex with young kids. But having a family with young children.
Carin: So first of all, the fertility journey. I know Willow, you do a lot of work with that. There's nothing less sexy than a fertility journey. Because it's like we all spontaneity goes out the window and you must get it up Now, whether we want it or not. The stress, right? It's like I'm ovulating this moment and this must happen at this moment, and so it becomes very unsexy. And for many reasons, I can see why so many people end up breaking up during that time. The stress of it.
Dr. Willow: There's a lot of pressure.
Carin: A lot, a lot.
Leah: Performance anxiety.
Dr. Willow: A lot of pressure and performance on both parties, on everyone.
Carin: Yes.
Dr. Willow: And again, that depression, that pressure, you know, it doesn't give life force energy
Leah: Does cortisol prohibit the success sometimes?
Dr. Willow: Yes.
Carin: It's so fastcinating. Can we have six more conversations on My Podcast? Please come on my podcast, we'll talk about this and I'll be on yours and we can talk about all these things. Because cortisol absolutely prevents pregnancy.
Because when we're in fight / flight mode, right? We get the jolt of cortisol and our bodies were designed to not wanna reproduce when big hairy saber two tigers were coming to eat us. And so the whole fertility process is like anti-fertility.
Dr. Willow: It is. It can be.
Carin: And like a side note... Right, it can be.
Dr. Willow: There are other ways around it.
Carin: Fair enough, fair enough. Like one of the things I did, I had a goddess circle at my fertility clinic before the transfer. Like, the women came, showered rose petals on me. We put pussy juice all over the walls. Sorry. Fertility clinic. They don't know that. All of that. Okay.
So we got through that. Now having a baby and so part of our journey, I haven't even given all the details, has been like finding a way for us. I wouldn't say we have an open marriage, but I wouldn't say we have a closed marriage either. Like we went to Burning Man and it was like, okay, what are our rules while we're here?
I had a fantasy, this is pre-baby, of being tied up, being somewhere where I was tied up in a lot of people adoring me. So we went to a sex party. He facilitated my fantasy. I was tied up and then he went around and said, my wife wants to be touched.
And then we had the best sex and this was in the middle of going to a clinic every week.
Dr. Willow: Ahh, good job! There you go, that's Sex Reimagined right there!
Carin: Right there! So I know all of that was part of actually becoming pregnant, even though it was in a Petri dish and like all of that. But my body still needed to be receptive.
And so now that we have the baby, we have to be extremely intentional. We're tired. We run a business together. I'm the primary breadwinner. We parent equally, but when needed, I travel a lot more than he does because I lead retreats and stuff, and then he's parenting all the time. And at the end of the day, we don't feel like touching each other. We don't feel like touching anything.
Leah: Giving, giving, giving. Giving. Giving. Giving. Giving. Giving, giving. Giving some more. And now we just wanna read a book.
Carin: You know what? I really just wanna eat ice cream and watch tv.
Dr. Willow: And watch tv.
Leah: Yeah. Yeah.
Carin: And so we are in the process of Reimagining Sex right now.
So one of the things that we have done is, let's introduce some fantasies. What are some of your fantasies? What are some of my fantasies? Unfortunately we don't live by any family, but a year ago we were like, okay, how can we keep this sexy?
So my mom, and I can't do this anymore because my dad is very sick with Alzheimer's, so my mom can't babysit.
But we had a night of babysitting from her and we met each other at a bar as if we didn't know each other and came up with different names and the whole thing. Yeah, it was so hot. So we're like, okay, we really need to be intentional and what are the things that turn you on and what are the things that turn me on?
And going back to some of the principles in Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski, is that her name? You don't know that book? Come As You Are?
Leah: I know that book, wouldn't quote the author's name myself, because I don't remember the author's name. I know the book, yes.
Carin: I think it's Emily Nagoski. It's one of the books that I'm like, okay, let me like read this and know. Because she talks about knowing what puts the brakes on for you and knowing what accelerates things for you.
So I've been like, all right, what accelerates is when he is like, pretty kind of forceful. And like that turns me on to think that we're cheating on our partners instead of being partners.
Leah: The forbidden.
Carin: The forbidden. It really turns me on. So let's play that out.
But we are finding we have to be really intentional. Nap time on the weekends needs to be sexy time. So it's like, okay, we've got two hours on a Saturday and two hours on a Sunday. Because nighttime, forget it. So really, I think intentional is where we're at with Reimagining Sex and bringing in a lot of fantasy.
Not that my husband isn't wonderful as he is, but right now our primary role is parents. And that's not that sexy... except there actually is something very sexy about a man who's a great father.
Dr. Willow: Absolutely.
Leah: Yes. We can fetishize that for sure. I think that is something that can really be used, even if you aren't married to a father or dating a father. There is a way to take the father archetype and do some sexy things with it.
Carin: Yeah. Because it's like if we're just in the middle of changing a poopy diaper...
Leah: A good man is a good dad.
Carin: Right. So some parts of parenting, we don't feel like it. But when I'm just watching him roll around with our son, be tender with him, I constantly am telling him, you are so sexy right now. You are so sexy right now. And I have found that is important too right now. And like really being conscious with...
Dr. Willow: ...your words, that's where affirmations go a really long way. And I also love how you're exemplifying that you are, you know, you have these limited amounts of time, which is so true for all parents, right?
And so you're taking those limited amounts of time to the nth degree within your sexual comfort and exploration and what you guys are into. And instead of just like, let's just have some, like some quick sex for those two hours, like, let's actually do some role playing. Let's try this on, let's try that on, let's do different things.
In that little bit of time that we have, that goes so much further than just like, let's do it the way we've always done it.
Carin: Exactly. And let's make this go throughout the day. So that, like, how do we stay our sexy adult selves, and not just mom and dad?
And by the way, we're business partners too. So there's like all sorts of things on top of it.
Leah: Not a lot of breaks.
Carin: And this is stuff I've learned from, when I did Mama Gina was I need to be clear about what turns me on and what I need.
Leah: That's part of that self-discovery thing that you gotta take yourself on that journey.
Carin: And then telling him, Hey, here's what turns me on. Here's what I'd love from you. Or, I love it when you do X so that he wants to do more of it, or so he knows. Because I used to just be like, Why don't you just know? You know what I mean? And so...
Dr. Willow: ...so many people are like that.
Leah: Yeah.
Carin: Oh my god, yeah. And still that voice can come up for me. And because it can change one day we want one thing, one day we want another.
Leah: For real.
Dr. Willow: Depending on our cycle.
Carin: Exactly. Exactly. Oh, that's a different thing. I'm already in perimenopause, so I'm a new mom and I'm in perimenopause cause I'm 47.
So part of it is, I'm also reimagining my own sexuality at this point. As I take on all these different aspects as mom. But I'll tell you something else that's turning me on. It really turns me on to be a sexy mama.
Leah: Thank you. Thank you for making that a priority because we gotta start letting moms have sex again.
Once you're mom, you, we desexualize motherhood. It's the strangest thing.
Carin: Isn't that weird when we wanna, is it that weird when the world thinks that Jesus is mom never had sex?
Leah: It's just bonkers.
Carin: I mean, I'm a Jew and I don't mean to say anything, like everyone believe what you believe, but if the majority of people believe that Mary never had sex, then being a good mother means that we aren't supposed to have sex.
So, but I love being a sexy mama. One of my fantasies is that when my baby is 15, all of the guys are gonna wanna come over to my house and gals, whatever, because they're like, What's Shay's mom looking like?
Leah: Totally.
Carin: I would never do anything with a 15 year old. But that turns me on like a little bit of like, you know, what's that movie where there's the older woman and the younger dude?
Leah: There's a couple of them.
Carin: You know what I mean? Right.
Dr. Willow: We know ones.
Leah: We know those movies and so does everyone watching.
Carin: Exactly. So I like being a sexy mom.
Dr. Willow: Harold Maude.
Leah: Harold Maude.
Carin: Harold Maude.
Leah: I love that movie.
Carin: The Graduate? No.
Leah: No, The Graduate still has theme.
Carin: Was that one? So anyway I really take pride in that. You know, and part of what I've had to do Sex Reimagined is like adoring my body now.
Yeah. We were just talking about seducing ourselves. Like going through the process of like, if we play in the world of seduction, if you wanna be really good at seducing, like you gotta know how to seduce yourself.
You gotta actually take yourself out on that date. Look at yourself across the room with a mirror, and give yourself the eyes.
Dr. Willow: I love a good mirror and some candles uhhuh.
Carin: Me too. Yes. And, and as a mom, our bodies change. Like, I think I am what the traditional world would say, I'm skinny.
So some people like don't like me talking about body, they'll criticize you.
Leah: Oh, they take that right away from you? Yeah.
Carin: Yeah. Thank you. And my body is different since I had a baby. I have a belly I didn't have before. I'm not saying I have a big belly, whatever, but my body is different than she was. And I used to place my body's value on how perfect, societally perfect, she was. Basically like, how attractive is she to the societal gaze and Sex Reimagined is like, look at my belly that held my baby?
Leah: Meow.
Carin: Look at how genius I am, right? Like, wow, I made toenails, like you were saying in elbows and so like loving on my belly and like...
Leah: yeah!
Carin: Yes!
Dr. Willow: Did you do breastfeed love?
Carin: Kind of. He would not take my breasts. So I exclusively pumped for six months. I brag, is that pumping is not an easy journey.
Dr. Willow: No, it's hard. Much harder than breastfeeding.
Carin: So I exclusively pumped for six months.
Dr. Willow: And you nourished your baby with your own breast milk.
Carin: I did. I'm so proud of it.
Leah: Well bragged!
Carin: Thank you. I'm so proud of it. So my baby, I, like I said, I had a rare pregnancy condition called vasa previa. Do you know it, Willow? . And a lot of people know placenta previa, it's more common, but vasa previa is where a couple of the baby's blood vessels are outside of the umbilical cord and they sit over the cervix.
And so that's why if you have a contraction, it could break those blood vessels apart and then the baby has minutes before they bleed out, because they have so little blood. So I wasn't allowed to have an orgasm when I was pregnant. Talk about Sex Reimagined. We went, it was fun.
We actually went back to high school. We did a lot of like rubbing against each other and just before there would be anything...
Dr. Willow: Pull back.
Leah: Wow. That takes edging to a whole new level.
Carin: Yeah, it was so sexy actually. Oh. So I'm like going back to our baby moon and it was like, we were in LA, and it was like hot, but it was like, okay, stop.
Leah: Wow. Yes. That's so cool...
Dr. Willow: now, did your husband...
Leah: ...and challenging?
Dr. Willow: I'm curious if your husband joined you, if he was like, okay, you can't have one, so I won't either. Yeah, that's how he always was. Now I,
Leah: whoa, really?
Dr. Willow: Good man.
Carin: He is, my husband is like salt of the earth.
Leah: Okay, you need to do us a favor. You need to start an Instagram account with it all being about your husband being the dad, because there's some really great Instagram accounts watching dads be dads with their kids, and I'm telling you, oh, they are so fun to watch. They open you. I look at these and they're being so cute with their kids and they're just, you just get that always a good man feeling and it just does something to the body.
I feel open! I feel happy with whom ever they're partnered with, and I feel happy for the community. And the next thing you know, I'm like, I'm open everywhere.
Carin: Yes. Here's something. So I know we're probably way over our time, but, so my husband's a teacher. My husband's a math teacher. And do you have somewhere else to go?
Leah: Nope.
Carin: You're good for a second. Okay. And before we started working together as a math teacher for 20 years, and he still tutors and he tutors kids anywhere from second grade until juniors in high school. And he's just as good with the second grader as he is with the high schooler. And if I need a little turn on, I don't mean to sound so perverted, I like to listen to him tutor .
Dr. Willow: I love it.
Leah: I love it.
Dr. Willow: I love it.
Carin: When I listen to him with a second grader, I'm getting hot thinking about it. I know it sounds really weird. It's not the second grader,
Dr. Willow: it's him.
Carin: It's, yeah, it's him and like, he's a master in his field and his ability to connect with a child and like, it's so, it's so hot.
Leah: Yeah, when our partner is in their genius zone, that's the most attracted to them.
Carin: So attractive.
Leah: And it's so important during the phase of raising kids because raising kids isn't very sexy. It's exhausting.
Carin: And here's the thing too, it's exhausting and when you disagree on things, so it's like no one feels like there's a genius zone when you're parenting.
I don't wanna put that on anyone. Most of us, that's like a work in progress because am I doing it right? Am I not? You know what I mean? And when we disagree about what the other might be doing in parenting that can feel less sexy. And so there is like all this added stuff and I really feel like it's why we have to double, triple down on intentionality, double, triple down on conversation and double, triple down on like our own inner work.
And even remembering like, why did I choose this person in the first place? You know, Okay, what is it that I love about seeing that person as parent? He loves watching me be a mother. I know that turns him on.
Oh my God, this is so funny. when we were trying to have a baby, naturally, we ended up using an egg donor and I.V.F., we had like some of the best orgasms of our life screaming, we're making a baby.
Dr. Willow: Aww.
Carin: There was something like so raw about it. Like, so natural. So I think we just have to be open. I don't have all the answers. I'm learning as I go. But fortunately I did my work in sensuality, like my own personal work in sensuality and sexuality and understanding how important that is for me, before we had a child. Because now I know that I'm not gonna be happy in my best self, and we're not gonna be happy in our best selves if we're not staying sexually fulfilled. And listen, it's not five times a week, it's different now. And we also are like, this is a moment in time. So let's do what we can now. and keep it sexy, even when we're not having sex. Keep it loving. Like, and that's important.
We go up to each other and give each other a hug, a kiss. We have rituals as couples that we do. We drink out of matching coffee mugs. We have a ritual like going up to each other and holding each other from behind. And when we're off, one of us acknowledges it and is like, we're off.
Dr. Willow: And one of you gets you back on.
Carin: Let's talk about it.
Leah: Right, right. Challenging each other, like how quickly can we come back to love where it's still authentic?
Carin: Yes.
Leah: You know what's really like lovely that I'm just absorbing from you and your relationship in this conversation is that we went to this realm of like, okay, we can play into the fantasies and see like what's a turn on there.
And as we start to wrap things up, one of the things that I keep on feeling is cherishing. It's like there's this fantasy world where we get to give permission to be turned on by whatever is true. You know, no shame. What's whatever is true. And then there's this place I think in parenthood where you can turn towards each other and find that cherishing and like how sexy cherishing can actually be?
It's a different. It's a different turn on. It's a preciousness.
Dr. Willow: And so sweet.
Carin: Yeah, you're right.
Leah: Aww, my person.
Carin: You're so right. Like I was talking about fantasy and now I'm like, oh, and this reality, and I have to tell you the Tantra Weekend that we went to, Leah, was in the middle of our fertility stuff. When we really were like, It was a disconnection. The moment you're supposed to be the most connected. And we still use some of the practices, where we'll come back to breathing together. I mean, simple things.
Leah: Simple.
Carin: To really keep that connection are so vital and so important. I'm so grateful. So thank you.
Dr. Willow: Aw. And we can see it in your skin. In your eyes.
Leah: You shine.
Dr. Willow: In your glow, you know.
Carin: Thank you sisters.
Dr. Willow: That really shines through.
Leah: We'll wanna stay connected as you process what's coming next for you and the two of you
I keep having this watching Esther Perel or reading something that she spoke about, and that's this piece around partnership. We don't know if we're gonna be together forever, but we always have an opportunity as we grow into these different people, if we choose to be with each other for years and years and years, we continue to change and evolve as individuals.
And so we get to have a second and a third and a fourth chance of meeting each other, dating each other, getting married again, if that's what we want.
Carin: Yes.
Leah: I had a friend every day. Her and her partner would wake up and say, today I marry you. And there were days when they were like, today, I'm not married to you, and they allowed that to occur. Today I am free.
Dr. Willow: It is a choice that you make every single day.
Carin: It is. And I think that most people aren't conscious that it is a choice to make every day. And that's the same with self marriage. It's a choice every day. And when I feel like crap, I'm gonna put on my red lipstick because I'm claiming sexy mama.
Leah: And that's an important like pattern interrupt because when we're disconnected, we don't always know it. Yes. We end up being unconscious with our reactions to life. Right. It's kind a being that depressed, pressed down.
Carin: It's like, oh, I'm depressed. Or I'm just watching a lot of Netflix right now. Or I'm drinking a lot of Chardonnay right now. Or whatever it might be. But I don't, we're not conscious of, and we all fall, I mean, I know I've still fall into that sometimes because we're human.
Leah: So that like intentional question. It gives us a pause. It gives us a chance to go. That's right, I'm gonna choose this today.
Carin: Yeah.
Leah: Yeah. Love it.
Carin: So here's how we're gonna end then, ready Leah? This is how we're gonna end, since you're a positive psychology. I believe positive psychology comes down to two words. And you probably learned that one of the founders of positive psychology, Dr. Chris Peterson, may he rest in peace. That positive psychology comes down to three words. Other people matter.
And what I teach is that positive psychology comes down to two words. I choose.
I choose. And I give my clients a necklaces as I choose. And if I didn't have a baby, I used to wear it every day until he would like pull it off of me.
Like I have them on my website, these gold necklaces, and say, I choose because it's a, I really believe that is the key to happiness. And I fancy myself one of the world's leading experts in women's happiness because it is different. And we didn't even get into that, but we could. Because there are reasons that women are twice as likely to be depressed as men. And there are many reasons for that. And the anecdotes, the ways out of them are many of the things that we've talked about. But it's a moment by moment choice. That we can make.
Leah: Love it. Thank you so much. What a Yummy hour!.
Leah: Yes.
Carin: Oh, thank you. I love what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you.
Leah: Thank you. Love, love, love, love, love.
[00:58:00] Time to Dish - Carin Rockind's Episode
SxR Announcer: Now our favorite part, the dish.
Leah: Well, welcome to the dish.
Dr. Willow: Oh yeah. Carin Rockind. What a joy. What a wonderful woman. Oh my God, we had so much fun with her.
Leah: She's so like dynamic. I really appreciate her energy and her story. So many layers. It was like a surprise. You didn't know what was gonna happen next.
Dr. Willow: Yeah, totally. We covered a lot of ground with her.
We talked about her fertility journey and how unsexy infertility issues can be. And in my world, that's a huge thing. Like helping people find their rhythm and their flow and their fertility. And so she spoke really eloquently to that, I thought. And yeah, really loved the way she, you know, she kept using the word Reimagining Sex, which is what we're here to do.
And she really took that to heart. Because she's like, wow, now here I am at this point in my life with this two year old and this wonderful, amazing husband, and we need to reimagine. Like we don't have a lot of time for sexuality. So how are we going to make the most of the little bit of time that we do have?
And she had some great, you know, ways of reimagining what's possible.
Leah: Yeah, I really appreciated like her realness and her vulnerability about, one of her first relationships in life, being with a woman and feeling like she had to keep that a secret and then that there was physical abuse in that relationship and how confusing that was.
And yet here she meets her current husband who was this deadhead and had all these sexual experiences, both with men and women and being able to reflect on like, oh my gosh, I can tell someone about this relationship that I had and I can also be real and even a little envious of the positive experiences that he had in his, even though her sort of had trauma connected to it.
And and then going to Burning Man and having him like facilitate her deepest desires. And just like the openness, and the curiosity, and the realness that she really tries to authentically live by. It really, it really came through so shining. I mean, just her desire of like, oh my God, I like we gotta have the perfect world. And where is like the Jewish lawyer with the polo shirt and, and then realizing and then getting held up at gun point.
Dr. Willow: Held up at gun point!
Leah: I was shocked by that. I couldn't believe it.
Dr. Willow: I know, what a story.
Leah: And getting robbed. And like, just the awakening of going purpose, purpose, purpose.
Dr. Willow: All these dreams have not been actualized. I haven't even gone after them. I loved when she was telling us about her therapist, her wonderful therapist, who was like, honey, you're not depressed. You just have all these dreams that you haven't tried to create.
Leah: You don't have bipolar . You don't need more medication. You're gonna be fine without Lithium.
Dr. Willow: It's just so beautiful. She even told a story. She pulled When a Man Loves a Woman. Y'all know that movie? It's such a good movie with oh, I can't remember her name right now. Cute blonde, Meg Ryan. Where her and her husband go into the bar and they pretend like they don't know each other, and then they just start making out in the bar
Leah: Right, right, right, right, right, right. She's really, she's a great example of like being courageous and doing hard things. And being honest and being willing to be public about it. And also like the pain that comes with that. Having family members feel like you're too much and you shouldn't share all of that and shame you a little bit and being real about like the pain that exists there, but also choosing not to self abandon. Due to the opinions of others, you know?
Dr. Willow: And I loved her twist on positive psychology. I can't remember the three words that the creator...
Leah: ...it's; other people matter.
Dr. Willow: Other people matter.
Leah: And hers were...
Dr. Willow: She said; I choose.
Leah: I choose. Yeah.
Dr. Willow: Those words I choose after our interview with her, I've definitely had that like ringing in my mind quite a bit. There is a a real, when you get to, it's because it's the perception that you have, what you're choosing is how you perceive what's happening, good or bad in your life.
You get to perceive it in any way that you choose. And so that is a very empowering place to be moving through the world from. And it brings this deep sense of contentment that you get to choose to look at any situation as happening for you rather than to you.
Leah: And I love, like she's all about breaking traditional norms. It's like people saying you can't take your one and a half year old to Paris for a month. You know, like, you can't do this, you can't do that. And she's like, watch me. You know? And I just think that's so wonderful and I love seeing women make their own decisions about what they wanna do and not be so overly influenced by the opinions and judgments of others.
Even though it's hard, like she's really real about, it's painful to still walk at the, at your own beat of your own drum or whatever that saying is.
Dr. Willow: March to the beat of your own drum drumbeat.
Leah: I like the piece that she talked about regarding marrying your shadow side.
That was good. In a lot of shamanic traditions, we talk about marrying ourselves, but we don't always talk about the intricacies of really allowing your dark side to exist and be in relationship with it instead of being in judgment about it.
Dr. Willow: And it creates so much more wholeness when you bring that shadow side forward. And you can see it when you're with Carin, you can feel it. She really embodies wholeness. She really walks that talk and is in that practice of being a whole, being. It's beautiful.
Leah: Yeah, I loved the when she talked about how her girlfriends did like a ceremony at the clinic, at the fertility clinic.
Dr. Willow: Oh, yes. And put pussy juice all over the wall.
Leah: Sorry. Sorry clinic. I just thought you go girl. You go and get it. you know, she really just...
Dr. Willow: She's a testament to creating your own reality.
Leah: Totally.
Dr. Willow: You get to choose. I choose baby. I get to choose. Really beautiful.
Leah: And I knew her when she was trying to get pregnant and how hard that was. And I really met her during that chapter in her life and just felt how deeply she felt about it. And I think that our desire to be moms when we're dealing with infertility issues... Let's make a plan to really delve deeper into that because I think it's hard for people who love our friends who are struggling with that.
And I think it's hard for the friends who are struggling in it to feel understood. And so everyone's walking on eggshells and doesn't know what to do.
Dr. Willow: Totally.
Leah: And I would love to demystify that for people and give them the tools that they need to be able to support those loved ones who are going through it.
Dr. Willow: Absolutely.
Leah: So, thanks Carin. We love that you brought, like, sex after babies, and how to start to pay attention to that, knowing that it's gonna be a challenging chapter.
Dr. Willow: But that there's always a way. There's a way.
Leah: So we hope you loved this episode as much as we did. Tell us your thoughts and feelings that showed up for you in the comments. And please spread the love about Carin. And we'll see on the flip side.
Dr. Willow: Love, love, love,
Leah: love, love love.
SxR Announcer: Thanks for tuning in. If the hosts seem to know what they were talking about, that's because they do. Leah Piper is a Tantric sex master coach and a positive psychology facilitator.
SxR Announcer: Dr. Willow Brown is both a Chinese and functional medicine doctor and a Taoist sexology teacher. Don't forget your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.