Finding Love at Tantra Speed Date

 

[00:00:00] Introduction to Guy Shahar

 

Dr. Willow: All right, welcome. We are so excited because today we are here with Guy Shahar. He is the co-founder of the Tantra Institute and the originator of Tantra Speed Dating, which is very exciting. We're not going to talk about that today. He's also an Advanced Certified Tantra Educator and has studied a broad range of modalities, including Tantra, B.D.S.M, Orgasmic Meditation, Morehouse, which I don't know what that is, Quodoushka, which most people probably don't know what that is and others. So we're going to be enlightened today for sure. He's a writer, he is an entrepreneur, he's a former filmmaker and a musician. So Guy is really attuned not only to his personal journey to being a more interconnected lover. But also how to teach others to do the same. 

Announcer: Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast, where sex is shame-free and pleasure-forward. Let's get into the show. 

Dr. Willow: So we're thrilled you're with us today, Guy, welcome.

Guy: Thank you. Thank you for having me on the show. 

Leah: Fellow C.T.E. It's wonderful to have you.

Guy: Yeah. I think I'm an Elite C.T.E. now. I think that's what they call it. 

Leah: You are! 

Dr. Willow: Ooh, fancy title. 

Leah: Yeah, the Elite title. So, Guy, I'm curious, first of all, I didn't know you were a musician before. What kind of musician were you?

Guy: I played the guitar and I sang in a rock and roll band.

Dr. Willow: You did? That's fantastic. 

Leah: That's fun. 

Dr. Willow: So fun. What an expression of energy and sensual self that is. 

Guy: Oh, so much fun. So much fun. 

Leah: Do you still tinker? 

Guy: Well, so I actually have three guitars on my wall right now that I never have time to play. So not so much. 

Dr. Willow: I have a few of those myself just sitting around collecting dust.

Guy: But on occasion, on occasion, if you catch me at the right moment, I'll play a little Diddy, you know? 

Dr. Willow: Ooh. So tell us about your genesis story. How you went from, a former musician and filmmaker to being this amazing Tantra educator. 

Guy: It's a good story. I've thought about this actually quite a bit that I think the central question of my life ever since I was born is, how do I love? How do I love, I show up on this planet, how do I love, how do I open up my heart?

I definitely in the first few years of my childhood was a very open and extroverted, open-hearted boy. And then, some things happened that kind of made that shift, and I've been trying to figure out how to open back up. And that's kind of been my journey of Tantra. Is like, okay, like, how do I open my heart back up? How do I let that little boy out? and that has manifest in this idea of like, how do I love better in the world? Right? 

At the at the Tantra Institute, our mission is to be better lovers. And that doesn't just mean in the bedroom, but it means like, how do we love more while we're here? Before we leave these human bodies, and I don't want to leave this human body thinking to myself, you know, I left all this love on the table. I want to play it all out in the field. I want to love as much as I can, right?

When we get an email from a participant, it's like, how do I love this person in my response, I'm always asking myself that question. How do we love? 

Dr. Willow: That's such a good question. If more people on the planet would lead with that question in their response instead of their reactions to all the things that come at us in life. Really beautiful. 

Leah: Yeah, that really speaks to my message. I mean, I named my company More Love Works for that very, very reason. 

Dr. Willow: You very much echo Leah. 

Leah: We're on this planet, that's the question to learn.

 

[00:03:48] Conscious uncoupling with Lauren Harkness

 

Even through a breakup like you spoke with with Lauren.

Guy: And it's like we went through our breakup and it's funny because you would think to yourself, well, how do I love that? Sounds like a big ask, but in when we were going through our breakup, that question actually is what got me out of the breakup. Because I would ask myself, how do I love this woman that I let go?

How do I love through this experience? So when it was painful, having this focus of I need to find the way to love through this moment really helped me get through that sort of grieving experience of that relationship ending. 

Leah: I'm glad you brought breakup to the conversation because we haven't addressed that yet, that there's a conscious way, of course the typical conscious uncoupling.

What advice would you give people right now who are going through a breakup so that they don't have to spend so much money on divorce lawyers and taking therapists each other down and apart and create so much suffering?

Guy: Well, I mean, we have to support the divorce lawyer economy. That's really important to you, right. 

Dr. Willow: I think we're doing a good job of that.

Leah: I think they can find other ways to make a buck. 

Guy: I don't know. certainly in our culture here we have this idea that like a relationship is the end all be all, and you're in it for life and it doesn't work out. You've somehow fucked something up. Am I allowed to curse? 

Dr. Willow: Curse away. 

Guy: And that you somehow like, screwed something up in your life because your relationship didn't last to, till death do us part. And it's like, well, you know, you meet people for different reasons and even in our relationship with Lauren, like we met and I think we met to create the Tantra Institute. Which really is an extension of our love, the love that we shared together and having people over the eight years of our relationship, step into that love and be bettered for it and be able to have more love in their own lives. And then eventually we started teaching and this whole thing happened. So, I think every relationship is for a reason. And it helps to think about every relationship as a stepping stone to how do I become a better lover?

How can I be better in the next relationship? And what was the purpose behind this relationship? And in fact in our classes, we talk about designing your own relationship. Like, don't try to label what this is going to be like. Just find out what it is, create a foundation that's going to hold the actual thing that's available for you and have a, an intention for your relationship and see where it goes.

Leah: Yeah. I like that intentional piece. I love that. And for being someone who's been on the sidelines watching your journey over these years, I would remark that you and Lauren had a foundation of real friendship. And it seems like when we go through a breakup, if you can lean back into the friendship that this person wasn't just your lover but your friend.

I can remind you how to treat your friend when you go through these tender times, to kind of come back to go, okay, this is still my friend, and if they were going through a breakup with someone else, how would I show up for them? You know? And if two people can agree to do that, wow.

Then you get to keep everything that works and let go of what's not working anymore. 

Guy: Yeah. Yeah. Lauren was my best friend. So it was it was a challenging shift and actually, during our relationship, because we always had an open relationship, there were times where she was going through a breakup with somebody else, and I was comforting her. Because like we had multiple partners, which was a really interesting experience. 

Dr. Willow: I bet that was an interesting experience. Now, I love the way you just described how you sort of build this foundation for relationships. I mean, relationships are really changing these days more and more. 

People who are in more traditional ones are realizing that's maybe not their blueprint and maybe not the way that they're, genetically setup. So there's these other options and sounds like the way that you guide tantrically with relationships and really help people set that up is to you know, instead of putting this framework around something, it's like, let's get real with what actually is first and then the frame will build from that place.

Guy: Totally, totally. And in my relationship with Lauren, like we probably broke up about 60 times and it wasn't until we were able to look back on it and say, all those moments that we broke up and then got back together. They weren't that, we didn't want to be together anymore.

It's just we were both evolving and growing so fast that we realized, oh wait, we need a change to our relationship. But because there wasn't a way to change the relationship container that was like, you're either together or you're broken up, that it was like, okay, we had to break up. We needed a few days apart.

We needed to feel into what's the new thing that we need and then we were able to get back together in a loving place because we were both growing so rapidly. 

Dr. Willow: So you were breaking through every time. 

Guy: Yeah. Cause here isn't another option, right? I mean, the, in the relationship world.

 

[00:08:43] Transparency in Relationships

 

Guy: These days there are different perspective perspectives and ways to look at it, which is how we look at it. And it's like, design your own relationship. Like by all means, create the greatest thing ever that fulfills all of the needs that you want. Why not? Life is, Do it. Do it now.

Dr. Willow: And what I love about the possibility that this really holds for everyone who is listening and who is like curious about this is that you really get to then bring all of yourself to the table. Because so often when we get into a certain style of relationship we have to hide aspects of ourself away so that you know, for the sake of the relationship so that it can continue to move forward in a seemingly healthy way.

But then those pieces that... 

Guy: oh, that just sounds awful. Eww. 

Dr. Willow: Then those pieces that we... 

Guy: Why would you do that? 

Dr. Willow: Hide away. They start to fester and they start to become the bane of the relationships. 

Guy: Uhhuh, and then you start getting mad at your partner and all this other fun stuff. Who would want that? That sounds awful.

Dr. Willow: Well, it's a choice, right? It's a choice that we get to make. 

I don't know. I guess for me, like, and especially in my, in my relationship with Lauren, all of my relationships going forward have been like really totally fully transparent. Here's everything you want to know.

Guy: I'm in an open relationship, so with my partners now, it's like, you want to know how it was between me and another woman? I'll tell you. Let's sit down, I'll give you every detail. 

There was a moment in my relationship with Lauren. Probably about in the sort of early phase where, we were in an open relationship. Both of us had many lovers and we had total transparency. if I wanted to know, she would tell me. And at one point I remember we sat down. And we realized that when we were telling each other about our experiences with other partners, we were really telling the total truth.

Now, when I say that, what do I mean by that? What I mean is that let's say I went out on a date with a woman and it was awesome. Like, awesome, oh my God, the sex was amazing. I would come home and Lauren would be like, how was it? And I was like, it was it's okay. 

Dr. Willow: It's pretty good. 

Guy: Good. 

Leah: Nice. 

Guy: It was good. I enjoyed it. I had a great time, right. Exactly. There was like a gap. So then we sat down and we went through all lovers past. We're like, alright, we're going to clear the slate. We're going to go through everything.

And then it kind of became like that scene in like western movies where they're like showing each other's scars. Like, oh yeah, this scar is bigger than your scar. Oh no, look at this scar. And it was like, and then she's like, I got photos. I'm like, great. Show me photos. 

Leah: Oh my God!

Guy: I got videos. Break out the videos. 

Dr. Willow: Oh my God. 

Guy: I'd be like, oh, you're not triggered? How about this? How about this? 

Leah: Oh, you guys are on the edge. 

Dr. Willow: That's amazing. So what did that do? What did that do to the connection between you, the bond? 

Leah: Would you recommend that? 

Guy: Yes. So it created so much more openness. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, she would share a few things and I'd be like, Nope, not triggered. Nope, not triggered. Oh, amazing. I need a, I need a moment. I need a minute. 

Dr. Willow: That's very fascinating. 

Guy: Like what were the things that really triggered us? Like I would show her some really amazing photos and she wasn't triggered and there'd be like a photo of me cuddling with someone. She's like, I need a moment. Yes, yes. 

Dr. Willow: The more, the more like love, heartfelt, intimate moments, I could see really triggering women more.

Guy: It was a fun exercise.

Dr. Willow: It's really amazing. I'm doing a little mini version of that right now, and it is creating a closer, stronger bond between me and the other person. 

Leah: I don't know that I would do well with that. Okay. I think for me, it would be a fodder to create a story. And meaning that may not serve the greater good. 

Dr. Willow: That's why it so... 

Leah: My greater good. And your greater good. 

Dr. Willow: Right. Well that's why it's so valuable to really grok yourself. Like really know yourself deeply. 

Leah: And know what you can handle. 

Dr. Willow: And also what you were speaking to, Guy, like you took the pauses, you took the moments that you needed to take in order to integrate when there was a trigger. And that's I think really important. 

Leah: Plus you had years of practice of holding space for one another, and creating trust for one another, and practicing the tools. So I think having the background that the two of you have led you to be able to be that open and that honest. And there was something that Joanna Shakti was saying recently in our interview with her, when we really reveal ourselves and really say what we're not saying and allow ourselves that kind of intimacy. Then you come together and you're closer. And it sounds like those conversations brought you and Lauren closer. Yeah? 

Guy: A hundred percent. 

Leah: Okay. 

Guy: A hundred percent. And that's the Tantric way, right? 

Leah: And it served two of you. Yeah.

Congratulations. I think that's very inspiring and scary as shit. 

Dr. Willow: Well done. It does. It takes a lot of courage to do that. And like Leah exemplified, it really is not for everyone. So knowing yourself and also knowing your partner and testing the waters as you go. I bet that was like actually a lot of fun for you both to be in full expression of like how good all the other lovers were along the journey. 

Leah: And then you got to savor and relive it. So how did this, or did this experience inform how Tantra Speed Date came about?

Is there a bridge between your experience with Lauren and Tantra Speed Date?

 

[00:14:21] Tantra Speed Date

 

Guy: Well, I mean, it's how do you, like how do I show up more fully as who I am? As you said, more fully expressed in a relationship. How do I show up and be more present? Tantra Speed Date really started because, I would in the CTE like I would go and sit in these pujas and have these amazing connections with women that, maybe I didn't even know too well.

And then you namaste, and then you move on to the next person. And there's such a deep intimacy that's created at that moment, but when the puja is over, it feels kind of creepy to be like, can I get your phone number? Do you know what I mean? Because we just like namaste and everybody's like very solemn.

And so I was like, well, wouldn't it be cool if, like, you could have this kind of intimacy on, like, a date? And so I was like, alright, but it needs to be more than that. And so the educator in me was like, let's create these exercises for people to do that are very much about being present as Tantra is about being present with someone, being there with them.

And then build in some relationship skills so that like you go through this experience, you have like a two to three facilitated guided experience with someone, you move on to the next person. And by the time the whole thing is through, it's like you've picked up three or four relationship skills; you're probably not even aware that you learned those skills.

And in the process have up-leveled yourself in terms of what kind of relationships you can have and probably made yourself a more attractive and capable partner for any kind of relationship. 

Leah: So for those people who don't know what is a puja? Talk about like the framework of how the speed date thing actually operates. 

Guy: So in this format there's an outer circle of men and an inner circle of women, and everybody's facing a partner. And you have a two to three minute experience with one person, and then they rotate and you have a two to three minute experience with the next person, until the circle goes all the way around.

And you've had an experience with everyone in the circle. 

Dr. Willow: Awesome. So Tantra Speed Dating. It's a puja. I love that. 

Leah: What are some of the experiences like, can you describe what like a station would be? 

Guy: Sure. So it could be like an eye gazing station. right? It could be a station where we share something about ourselves or we share a prompt, right?

Like one of my favorite ones is the relationship superhero station. So that's where you're going to share. You know, what do superheroes have, superpowers. So you can share what's a relationship superpower that you have? Like if someone's in a relationship with you, what's like your superpower that you have that they're going to love to benefit from?

Dr. Willow: Ooh, that's a good one. 

Guy: So that might be an example.

Dr. Willow: I love that.

Guy: There's a variety of different exercises that are really designed to bring you into more presence, to connect more, and get to know someone better than just saying, who are you?

Where do you live? What do you do for work? 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, I love that. I love that aspect. It's like you're getting more intimate to the actual person, not their persona. Not so much like who, what do you do? How many kids do you have? That kind of thing. But what's your superpower?

Great question. 

Leah: What so alright, everyone goes through the process and maybe they feel some energy with one person and maybe not so much with another person. How does the connection take the next step after the process? Like, how do you communicate? Hey, I'd like to hang out with you some more. 

Guy: The women wear these pouches that have beads in them, and the men have other gray pouches, which I don't have around here at the moment.

And so a match is created when a woman takes one of her beads and puts it in a man's pouch, and then that creates a match. And then afterwards we put them in touch with each other so either one of them can make the next move. 

Dr. Willow: Ah, that's nice. 

Leah: And you've got these now happening I think overseas and in the U.S., what are some of these cities?

Well we we're reopening now since the Covid shutdown, we've started reopening and we are in, I might miss a few cities, but we're in Boston, New York, San Diego, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver, Boulder, Austin, Texas. 

Santa Cruz. 

Guy: Santa Cruz, London, Amsterdam is debuting next week.

Dr. Willow: Sweet. That's exciting. 

Guy: Miami Toronto So we have a lot of new cities are opening up. 

Dr. Willow: I love this because a lot of the students that I teach, they're like, well, I'd like to have, cause I'm teaching them to have, instead of calling it Tantra exploration date, because that's a little scary, they're not really sure if they're ready for that.

I'll say like an intimacy exploration date and they'll be like, okay, well where do I even find one of these people? So this is a perfect place to meet somebody who you could potentially then go a little deeper with and have an intimacy exploration date with. Which could involve clothes or not. You get to design it, you get to create it.

I think that's one of the most beautiful things about Tantra is you get to stay within a comfort zone that allows you to stretch your comfort zone. 

Guy: Yeah. And, at our event we actually do a lot about empowerment and sovereignty and really owning your sovereignty and choosing if you want to step in or step out of a station with a particular person.

And I think that's really something we're not taught. 

Dr. Willow: That's really empowering. 

Leah: Please say something more about that. Like how do you, what's the framework? How do people step back if they want to? Where is that place of choice and how is the reaction with another person as a result of that?

Guy: Well, so firstly, it's everybody's responsibility to keep themselves safe, right? We will do our best to create and hold a safe container and provide you with tools, but it's your responsibility to use them. So the first step is really letting people know, like that's your responsibility and you're empowered to do it, and however you want to participate is up to you.

And then what we do as educators is we give them tools. So for instance, let's say you're in a station with someone and you decide you want to opt out, you take a step back, you bring your hands into namaste. And that's how you say even non-verbally. I'm take, going to take a break. I'm going to take care of me for a while.

Dr. Willow: Beautiful. 

Guy: So that you don't even have to say anything. Yeah, that's good. You can adopt the tools and the skills that we teach to better communicate this. And then we also teach them communication tools so that they can interact with each other better. Because I think we're really missing this piece in our culture about empowerment that, we should really only do what we want to do.

That's like, why would you do anything else while you're in this body? You know, does it make any sense? So we also teach them communication tools. There's a massage station and so there's a three step communication tool called active receiving that they learn so they can communicate adjustments to their partner. You know, tell their partner what they like and appreciate what they want their partner to change and back and forth. And, these are skills that also translate into the bedroom in other areas of your life. Hello? 

Dr. Willow: That's right. 

Guy: So, you know, these aren't things that we're normally taught and all of that is built into the process.

So, you know, it's really easy to opt in, to opt out, to communicate adjustments, and then people learn and they grow and they really step more fully into their sovereignty by attending an event like this. 

Dr. Willow: I love that. That's so powerful. So for our listeners who've never heard of this but are intrigued, how would they even go about signing up, getting themselves there?

Guy: So you visit our website, www.TantraSpeedDate.com, and you can find an event in your city. And if we're not in your city, send us an email because we're probably planning to open up that city and you, that's how this whole thing started. 

Dr. Willow: Love it. 

Guy: Like, we did not intend to have an event that was in 35 cities. When we started this five years ago. I just created it because I thought it would be a fun way for me to meet women is this kind of process. And then other people enjoyed it too. And then I would get phone calls from people going, Hey, I heard about this event. Can you bring it to Denver? Can you bring it to San Francisco?

And before I knew it, we were in 30 cities and Love that.. 

Dr. Willow: It took on a life of its own. 

Guy: Exactly. And I was kinda running behind it. 

Dr. Willow: It's a living, breathing organism now. 

Guy: It totally is. 

Dr. Willow: I love that. And so you have different teachers facilitating in different cities and so maybe for some of our listeners who are Tantric facilitators already, they might be interested in learning how to become facilitator of this. 

Guy: Oh yeah. And, our facilitators, then go on to facilitate other events and, be part of our sort of inner circle of our community. Of mindful people it's really, quite a process. I, again, I wasn't planning to create a facilitator training program. You know, the first year we started Tantra speed date, June, 2017. By the end of that year, I was traveling to six cities every month, doing it monthly in six cities. And I was like, oh wait, like I can't keep doing this. I need to find other people. And so then we had to create a training program to teach them how to run the event and everything evolved from there. 

Dr. Willow: Ah, love that.

 

[00:23:26] The Intimacy Hour, Community Parties, and Online Courses

 

Leah: So you offer a lot of different things through the Tantra Institute. I know you've got online courses; you've got the Intimacy Hour that is every Sunday on YouTube.

Guy: Every Sunday at 5:30 pm Eastern is the Intimacy Hour, which is an interactive talk and Q&A on a crowdsourced topic. So our community members are like, we want to learn about this, and then we'll find someone, or we'll talk about it. And then every Monday night, we have our Meet the Community Event at 8:30 pm Eastern, where we play games, connect with each other, and have a community hangout.

So there are many different online courses. There are even more in-person events. There are recorded video courses, you know, so there's a lot of, there's a lot of content. 

Dr. Willow: A lot of options through Tantra Institute. 

Leah: Where do people go to take a look at some of that? 

Guy: All of it is on our website at Tantrany.com.

Leah: What have you been juiced up about lately? What's grabbing your attention, whether that's something that you're creating now or something that you've actually liked, a piece of personal work that you've been studying that's kind of taken hold? What can you share? 

Guy: Well, I'm actually super excited about Tantra Speed Date because there are new cities, and there's an influx of energy, and people interested like to go out and meet in real life.

And, I'm hearing from many people how awful dating is when you try to do it through an app. And so people are like flocking to the event. And new facilitators have been reaching out to me, so it feels like it; it wants to grow again. And so it's really been taking up a majority of my time focusing on the new cities, and like this weekend I'm flying to Toronto, and then next month I'm going to test another facilitator.

And we have it opening in Amsterdam, and I'm, I can't even fly to test it, so I'm sending another senior facilitator. It's to test the new facilitator. So it's just a buzz of activity. It's definitely super exciting. Oh, exactly. 

Dr. Willow: So great. Yeah. I love that.

 

[00:25:14] Desire, Attraction, and Preferences 

 

I know that you talk about desire quite a bit in some of your work; it seems like it's a cornerstone of some of your programs. What, can you share with us about desire? What's your take on it? 

Guy: I think a person should live their desired life. That if you're on this planet that the thing that you are most interested in doing and in giving the thing that's pulling you in your life, the thing that you're desiring, is actually something that the universe wants from you.

It's like a magnet. I believe that our desire works as a polarity. If you organically, honestly, and authentically desire something in your life, then the universe wants you. In the same way, that attraction works between people. If you have chemistry with someone, an organic natural attraction to someone, that person has an attraction to you.

They might have different preferences, they might have a different level of connection to their body chemistry, but it doesn't work as a one-way if it's a real attraction. It works two ways, like a magnet, right? If I'm a North Pole and you're a South Pole, and I feel attracted to you, you feel attracted to me, right? 

Guy: So I think that our purpose on this planet works in the same way that if I feel pulled to create something in this world, then the universe is saying, Guy, we want you to do that. We want you to give this as your gift to the world. How about pushback? 

Leah: Go for it. 

Dr. Willow: Push girl, push. 

Leah: I have had many experiences where the attraction wasn't two ways.

It was one person is attracted to me and I am not attracted to them, or vice versa. 

Guy: So well then I would argue, I would argue that that's, that that's not attraction, right? There's a difference between who we think we want and what our preference is. Like I want someone tall and blah, blah, blah. What I'm talking about is you bring your body close to someone, and your body's like, oh my God, I gotta get me a piece of that person.

Like that has always been a feeling both people can feel. Always, always, always.

Leah: So, you just, I think, described what attraction is. What would you call the other thing? 

Guy: Well, that's your preferences. What you desire, what you consent to, right? So we talk a lot about desire and consent.

 

[00:27:19] Do you consent to your desires?

 

Guy: Desire comes from the body, right? I desire this thing. Consent is what you agree to, right? You might not agree with your own desire. You might be like, oh my God, I really want to be with this woman, but I'm in a monogamous relationship. I won't consent to my own chemistry and my own desire, right? Those are separate concepts, and I think that part of the work that we do in helping people understand their own sovereignty is distilling those to us separately, right?

Guy: I might greatly desire to be with someone and not consent to it, right? I might also have no desire to be with someone but consent to it because I want to try it, and then desire also changes; it can change. It's very fluid. Okay, 

Leah: I like that. So the desire is this body response, and consent is an intellectual agreement with yourself, and then it sounds like attraction is this energetic magnetism.

Guy: Yeah. So I'll give you a great example. Many, many, many, many years ago, before Tantra, before anything, I was at some sort of event for a friend that was happening at a bar. And I met this woman at a bar, and I felt this pull to her, like I just wanted to be in her presence. I didn't even know what it was, but I felt this pull toward her.

And I remember that at some point, I asked her for her number, and she said no. So I was like, okay, you know, whatever. I didn't get it, but that's fine. When I went about the rest of my business, you know, at the end of the night, she was hanging around, and we had a little moment. Can I ask you a question?

And she's like, yeah. I said I asked you for your number earlier and you said no, and by the way, that's totally cool, but I wanted to let you know that the reason I asked was I felt this real attraction to you. And so, I wanted to know if is that something that you feel too, or is my radar off?

I need to, like recount. And she stopped me, and she goes, oh no, Guy, I feel tremendously attracted to you, but I just met this guy, and I want to give that relationship a chance. So when she said that, my nervous system settled. I was like, oh, I was feeling the right thing. 

Dr. Willow: You were on track.

Guy: But whatever the circumstances are, it was not something she could consent to.

And then fast forward 20 years later to now, we look at those two as desire and consent, and we teach that in our courses. 

Leah: I love that. Yeah, that's, those are great distinctions. 

Dr. Willow: So powerful. Yeah. 

Leah: So then, what attracted you to Tantra? 

Guy: What attracted me to Tantra is that I wanted more intimacy. I wanted more connections in my life.

I wanted more healing from my traumas in my past, which I found, right. And I wanted to be able to, I remember, when I was very young, I was really obsessed with being really good at dating. And I went out with many women, but I always felt like there's gotta be a way I can connect with them more.

Like, I don't, I just, I feel like there's, like, I want our hearts to be closer, and I don't know how to do that. And the things that you learn in Tantra, sort of how to be present, how to breathe, how to be more in your body and really connect more to the body. You know, it creates a way to really open up your heart and connect with someone.

And so I was able to find the intimacy and the depth that I was looking for, that I didn't even know existed. I didn't even know what it was, but I knew I was looking for something, and then I found it. 

Dr. Willow: Beautiful. And so when you first got on the Tantric path and sort of felt like, Ooh, this is home.

Like I have arrived to the place I've always wanted to experience and be. Was there any sort of things that you had to let go of, that you had to release from who you were before? 

Leah: Yeah, like, what obstacle did you have to overcome? 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. 

Guy: I don't know. In the past, I was very goal-oriented, and if you want to be in the present, you have to let go of goals because you know what's going to happen is going to happen.

And you can influence that a little bit, but you can't, like, I mean, if you're fixated on a goal, and it's like, I want to achieve a, then any information that comes to you is like, okay, does this serve my goal? Does it not serve my goal? Instead of being present to what's actually happening? Right? you know, I'm trying to get to this thing, and I'm not paying attention to this because it's not important. It's not serving the place I'm trying to get to. Well, okay, well, what's actually happening, right? Which is the same approach that we take to relationships at the school.

Like, what's the energy? How are things flowing between you? How do you want them to flow? And how do you make a space for that to happen so you can have more intimacy and a deeper connection? 

Dr. Willow: Yes. If more relationships started off that way, I think they would be healthier and last longer. For sure. Yeah. It's a beautiful offering. 

Guy: That's why we tell people to be open to who you're going to meet in the room at Tantra Speed Date. You never know where a connection is going to go from. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, exactly. And to speak to that attraction piece, you have these ideas in your head of, like, they've gotta be tall, they've gotta be blue-eyed. They've gotta have the checklist, but the energetic draw, the energetic attraction to somebody, isn't the checklist.

 

[00:32:05] Sovereignty is Integrity. You do no one favors when you say yes, but you're really a no. 

 

Dr. Willow: And so really letting go of, again, the goal, the idea of the ideal of what you think you want, and being present to your sovereignty. 

I really love that you brought that up and that you cultivate that within the Tantra Speed Dating realm, and I'm sure all the realms that you teach in, because that sense of sovereignty when it is when someone's really standing in that place, they become very magnetic.

It's like you have everything you need already inside of you. Everyone else is icing on the cake. 

Guy: Yeah, I think that's a really good point; that's actually the cornerstone. We have an event called Desire. It's a private event. But it's all about connecting to your desire and following that with consent with the people in the room.

And one of the things we are always saying is please always be in your desire. Say no if someone is interested in doing something with you and you don't want to do that. Because if you're saying yes, then now you're not in your desire. That's going to suck for you. It won't be very pleasurable for the other person because they can feel that you're not really very into it, and you're going to bring down everybody in the room by not staying faithful to your desire and what you want.

And so you're going to ruin our event if you don't stay in our, in your desire. And that really is the key, like the whole point of that event is if all of us are in our desire, we're going to create magic. 

Dr. Willow: Absolutely. And there's a learning curve to that, where you can really learn how to stay with your desire.

Because I think there's so much of this, like, well, I don't want to hurt the other person's feelings, and I want to make sure I'm liked and accepted by the tribe and all of that. Which makes sense. But, it can take time to really be someone who's so committed to their own desire and trust that they can just easily be like, Nope, don't want to do that. Moving on. 

Guy: Well, we have them practice. 

Dr. Willow: Of course. If they're getting invited to this private event desire, they will already be well-developed in that area. But just for those who are getting into this and used to this for the first time, just know it can take time, and you'll slip, and years can go by, and you'll slip again.

And it's an ongoing practice.

 

[00:24:00] The Destructive Face of Eros

 

Elayne: And I think you're really talking about the power and destruction of love. The power of the destructive face of eros. You know, that image of you in the bar with the two balls of fire, ready to throw them at someone. And for me, that story of using my eros, using my power to destroy, also came in my late teens and early twenties when I started to realize, I started to wake up to the feminine. I started to become a feminist and read about goddess history and what was available to me back then. And I got really fucking mad. Excuse my French, but really fucking mad at the patriarchal, at the men. And I couldn't, at that point, separate men from patriarchy, which obviously, I have since done.

But I was horrifyingly mad at my first husband. I got married when I was 21 and was desperately in love with this man. And I destroyed him as he destroyed me. We destroyed each other, quite frankly. We did 10 years of destroying each other in that relationship, and it was highly erotically charged.

And it was coming from all of the unhealed feminine within myself, right? All of the trauma of my own past, but not just my trauma, the collective trauma of the feminine that I couldn't even name. I had no idea that I was plugged into the collective trauma of the feminine. And that was why I was so mad.

So this is the dark side, right? The dark side of this, the shadows of eros, and the dark side for the men. That also has to do with domination, manipulation, control, and being in charge. And having been masculine, having been in charge, and having been the patriarchal model and mindset of what we've been shown around attraction, desire, ownership, and possession.

And I always remind all of my men folk and my women folk that it's only a hundred years since we've had the vote. 

Dr. Willow: It wasn't that long ago. 

Leah: That's so true. 

Elayne: We're talking about a blip on the horizon. We're talking about women still in places in the world with no rights, no voice, no right to vote, and no say. That women still, in many parts of the world, do not have the right to ownership of property, to earn their own money, to drive outside of the home, or to drive, or to have any other life other than the life that they have with their husband and their children, right. 

Dr. Willow: And so to serve.

Elayne: And when we really grok that, we grok where we are in the journey of remembering who we are. And is it any wonder that the world of sexual and erotic relationships between us is so mired with so much projection and so much fear and pain. 

And what you were saying, Leah, about the fear of, really, what you wanted was love, but you were wielding your sexual power because guess what, you could, and you knew how to. And that is something that women have done throughout history is to wield their sexual power because that was the only way they felt powerful. 

Leah: Right. 

Dr. Willow: And interestingly enough, it is an extremely powerful energy, which is why it has been oppressed for so long and, you know, swept under the rug and put down. And don't feel that power. 

Leah: Because don't express that power; it'll get you in trouble. the fear of a sexual woman's power, wow, did that control us for a long time—the fear of female sexual power. 

Dr. Willow: So where we are now in our timeline, in our history, is like we have this opportunity to hold it with integrity. To not use it to overpower and also not to be afraid of the power that is there.

So what would you say to our listeners who are like, oh, where do I sit in that? How do I embody that? How do I become whole in that way?

 

[00:34:21] Miracle Stories from Students

 

Leah: What are some miracle stories, like before and after of a student that just, you know, like when you think about transformation, you have somebody come into your course like one way; sensing, feeling, agonizing. And then they have an experience, and now they're different.

Do you have a client or a student that comes to mind that you'd like to share? 

Guy: Sure. Yeah. The first thing that comes to mind is watching people's faces change when they first show up to Tantra Speed Date, and they're a little bit nervous about what will happen over here.

And then by the end of the night, they're all glowing and happy, and all very, like, loving with each other. And often we have to kick them out of the room because, like ours. 

Leah: Everyone wants to hang out

Guy: ...the place is closing, and they want to hang out. So they'll gather together and go to dinner together.

And because they want to keep that sort of glowing feeling happening. And there's a story of a woman who attended many years ago in New York, and she came to Tantra Speed Date there, and she gave out a lot of beads in the ceremony. And then, after the Tantra Speed Date, she went to her friend's birthday party, and she met a man there.

And that man was like, who is this woman? Like this woman's, 

Dr. Willow: she's all a glow... 

Guy: She's a glow, and she's radiant, and he's like, I need to meet this woman. And so she ended up not even following up with any of the men because like she met that man right after. 

Dr. Willow: Amazing. 

Guy: He caught, he was hit by the thunderbolt and they started going out.

Because it could be so nourishing too, you know, take an experience that's so harrowing, like dating that really sucks, and make it fun! And making it a place where you can open your heart and be seen, and accepted in part of a community is really quite, quite a spectacular thing. So to witness that, you know...?

I remember I was just in Austin two weeks ago to test our newest facilitator who passed her test in Austin. And I remember there was this moment towards the end of the ceremony where I could feel everyone totally drop in with each other. And I was like, wow, that's amazing. And I had this thought that yep, she just passed her test.

Like there was still a half-hour left in the ceremony to go, but I was like, she nailed it. She's in, yeah, she passed her test. And it was, you could feel it, you know like you could feel it. It was amazing. 

Leah: So juicy. 

Dr. Willow: When a Facilitator really holds that level of presence for everyone to be at the table.

Everyone can feel it. Like you said, it is so palpable. It really shifts, it's cellular, and it's so healing. Like it gets rid of diseases and disorders in the body. It's so amazing. 

Leah: And I think there's this felt sense. It's like that dropping in, gives us permission to be in our bodies.

And that's where this experience of belonging gets to spread. And in so doing, we open, and we realize that there's a place for us to connect even wider and deeper with the people that are here. And what causes so much pain and aloneness, maybe aloneness isn't the right word, it's loneliness or isolation, is that feeling of separation. And so I think it's great that you're creating these communities in these various cities and people have a place to belong and to make dating less stressful.

You know, cause if you can date within your friend group, you're probably going to have a lot of success. 

Dr. Willow: It's such a great way to network, to meet people. Even if you don't end up having some romantic passionate affair with them. Maybe you become really good friends with them, and maybe then you meet your future partner through that new friend or something, you know, it ripples out, a beautiful opportunity. 

Guy: We've had people that have met like wingmen and wing women for each other. Because I always tell them like, if you go out in a mixed group, it's easier to meet other people. I mean, very early on there was this couple that met and they had so much in common, but they didn't really have chemistry, like, that just wasn't happening.

But they were like, you know, I really like you, and you really like me. Let's go out and meet people together. So it's really great. So they would go out and can you imagine she would go to other women and say, Hey, he's a really great Guy, you should really talk to him. And they would help each other out.

Like how awesome is that to have another woman go and advertise for you? 

Dr. Willow: Yes. That's better than advertising for yourself. Yeah, totally. 

Leah: That is so great. 

Dr. Willow: That's great.

 

[00:39:00] Stories of Tantra Speed Date Marriages & Babies

 

Leah: Have there been any long-term relationships, or marriages that have come out of Tantra Speed Date? 

Guy: Oh yeah. So we've had plenty of marriages now, there are even Tantra Speed Date babies. 

Leah: Ooohh, no shit?! 

Dr. Willow: Oh, love it! 

Guy: Just a few months ago I saw another couple post a photo with their baby. 

Dr. Willow: That's so great. 

Guy: So, you know, there's been quite a few, quite a few. We had one couple that they got married and they held up a big sign and they said, Thank You to Tantra Speed Date, and they sent us a photo of that, like from their wedding.

Dr. Willow: That's so great. 

Guy: It's amazing. 

Leah: That must have felt fantastic. Congratulations to them and to you for that. That's great.

 

[00:32:15] Your Eros, your attractiveness is not based on how others see you.

 

Elayne: And it gets so hard when you're in the erotic attraction to figure out whose stuff is what and that the field of projection between you and your lover is so thick. And the idealized and the whole idea of falling in love, and what does that even mean? To fall in love on, who are you falling in love with? You're falling in love with the idealized self that the other is showing you, right? And that's not real, either. Right? 

But there is an attraction there that's running this, that we are called to navigate, and that if navigated and held within the sovereign self. In other words, my attractiveness is not based on you being attracted to me.

Oh, let's say that again. If I understand and I'm rooted in myself, specifically as a woman, that my attractiveness, that my eros beauty, beauty is not based on you being attracted to me. 

Dr. Willow: That's right. That's so powerful. Then you are standing in integral power. 

Leah: Say it one more time. Let's just hear it one more time, sister. 

Elayne: If my beauty, my eros, my attraction, my innocence of that in myself is based in me and is not based in how you see me. In other words, it's not based on your attraction to me. 

Leah: Right. It's not about the other; it's not external. It's an inside relationship. 

Dr. Willow: Then you're truly in love. Then you're truly in love, like a capital I, capital N. You're standing in your own love for yourself. 

Elayne: That's right. So when I say your full erotic presence, what I really mean is your capacity to locate your own sovereign sense of your energetic being, of your field of attraction. Of your field of desire and truly owning that within you. And You, and only you, are responsible for meeting the needs of that desire. No one else.

 

[00:39:39] Free Gift for our SxR Audience

 

Leah: So I know you've got a Free Gift for our audience, thank you for that. Can you tell us a little bit about it? 

Guy: I do. 

Leah: It's a practical introductory workshop.

Guy: Oh, that's right. Yeah, of course, of course. So we have an Intro to Tantra Class. Really fantastic class. And we're offering that to your audience as a free gift. It's a paid class, it's free for the folks that are tuning in. 

Dr. Willow: Awesome. That's so generous. 

Guy: Click on some link to get it. 

Dr. Willow: That's right. 

The cool thing about it is that it's an Intro to Tantra Class that is really very grounded and down to earth.

Guy: We talk about the science of what grounding is all about and what presence actually means. And how is it that you can take some Tantric concepts, which can be very abstract sometimes to try to understand. How can you make them practical and use them in the real world to have more intimacy, more connection and really live a more present life right?

How do we be more present and less on autopilot in our lives and in our relationships? And so I like it because it's like super practical. Like, here are things you can do to have more fun and be more present in your life. 

Dr. Willow: Ah, that sounds like a great gift. I'm definitely going to check that out. 

Leah: Yeah.

It's been so great having you here, Guy. Thanks for making time for us and participating in the podcast and the summit. 

Dr. Willow: Such a pleasure. 

Guy: Pleasure to speak to you both. Thanks for having me here. This was fun.

Leah: Love, love, love.

 

[00:46:35] Where do you begin finding the sovereignty within?

 

Dr. Willow: So in wrapping up and closing, Elayne, a word of wisdom for our listeners who are, they're on that path to finding sovereignty, to exploring that, and to really figuring out what that is for them in their own lives. What would you say? 

Okay. So I would really say, I'm tuning in for a moment to really feel.

Elayne: Where you give your power away to other people. Where you leak your power, let's put it that way, is a really massively fantastic place to begin an inquiry. And the way that you know know that you are leaking your power. Power synonymous with your eros, right? Where you are leaking that power is to look at the places in your life where you feel drained, where you feel separated from yourself, where you feel like, oh God, do I have to do that?

Where you are procrastinating, where you don't want to have to show up, but you're obliged to and you're trying to, right? Relationships, projects, things. Where are you draining your power there? And then, conversely, look into areas of your life where you're trying to get something that you think it is that you want, that will complete you.

Dr. Willow: That's so good. 

Elayne: And when you recognize what you're doing there, the question is, how do you bring your power back to yourself? In other words, how do you sit in the center of your own selfhood and make yourself responsible for your desires? For your deeper yearnings in life, for your fulfillment on your purpose, for being here? That's part of your eros too. So... 

Dr. Willow: beautiful. 

Elayne: Blessed be. 

Dr. Willow: Beautiful, so powerful. Thank you so much, Elayne.

 

[00:41:12] Time to Dish - The Guy Shahar Episode

 

Announcer: Now our favorite, The dish

Leah: Guy Shahar. 

Dr. Willow: I loved him. Oh my God. He was so great. Just like what a sweet man. What a wealth of information. And so in his sovereignty, loved to see a man in his sovereignty. 

Leah: Yeah. Yeah. 

He really spoke beautifully. And it's fun, Guy's been a student for, it's gotta be about eight years.

I think I met him right when Lauren was moving from Oregon to New York City to be a part of the Om house and got to see their beginnings and all the blowups.

And what's fun is that we also interviewed Lauren. And I was so grateful that he was generous to talk about their journey and that they're still able to be business partners and best friends and to go to the depths that they went to is really sweet and special.

And it was fun to have a bird's eye view of that over the years. You know he mentioned the word CTE, and we didn't mention what that means. CTE is a Certified Tantra Educator, a certification that comes through the Source School of Tantra Yoga. And specifically, it's a training that Charles Muir developed that's and you'll be able to find another interview with another great person, Charles Muir (SxR Episode #8).

And that's a company I've been involved in for many, many, many years. So I got to be a part of the facilitator staff and helped train Guy and Lauren and many others. It's so sweet to see friends and colleagues. 

Dr. Willow: I know, and it's so inspiring their story too, like how they maintained the love, they maintained their business partnership while going through, you know, the many ups and downs of what non-monogamy can bring to the table. I mean, you have to be willing to be committed to the truth. You have to be willing, to be honest. I loved when he shared with us how honest and real they finally got with each other.

Leah: I mean, holy smokes. 

Dr. Willow: Both Leah and I were like, woo! Would I be able to do that? You know? And not everyone is, and it's not about ability. It's just that is not for every person. 

Leah: It's something really about truth. I mean, my truth in this moment is that probably wouldn't be good for me.

Dr. Willow: Right. 

Leah: I don't know that I have the bandwidth to stay in a healthy space around all of that honesty. I would like to keep more privacy contained within the stories. I just know myself enough and have been through it enough to go, "hard. That might be a little hard." But I'm inspired when other people can do it.

Dr. Willow: Yeah. It's great to witness. 

Leah: I think that's their truth. 

Dr. Willow: Exactly. 

Leah: And when we are living from a place of truth, that's what we most want. I remember people would call wanting to sign up for a Tantra Seminar Weekend, and a lot of times they were couples who were really in trouble. And they wanted to know, will Tantra save my relationship?

And I had to tell them Tantra does not promise to save relationships. 

Dr. Willow: No. 

But Tantra will promise to bring you closer to your truth. And what we all really want is to live from our truth. And so that's what Tantra will promise you. And I really loved his sharing examples of that. Yeah, Yeah. It was so powerful. And then how he got into what was born through his Tantric journey of non-monogamy, of like, oh, I do want to meet other women. And the best way for me would be to do these pujas, which are also taught at Source Tantra.

So taking that model and turning it into this whole living, breathing being of Tantra Speed Date, it's so brilliant. Really, really cool. In over 33 cities now. Getting into Europe and just so rad. 

Leah: Such a success story. I know, I really love that. I feel like it's bringing this sort of art form into more of a modern society. 

Dr. Willow: More mainstream. 

Leah: So it doesn't have such a fringe experience. You know, I think just like Ian Ferguson (SxR Episode #2), in his work with Erotic Blueprint with Jaiya, the same thing. It's like getting onto Netflix and allowing some of this content to be accessible to everyone. And it's not this cultish, strange overly woo-woo concept. So I think that's really neat.

And he really represented, Yeah, that open relationship. We didn't go deep into the whole open relationship thing. Maybe that would be another next step to hear his philosophy on that. But yeah, we certainly talked a bit about it. And what I think is interesting about the whole conscious uncoupling piece is, Charles would refer to it as happily ever after, even after.

Dr. Willow: I love that. 

Leah: You know? The whole concept of that works whether you're in an open relationship or in a monogamous relationship, and you're realizing that your paths now need to go in different directions. And what would it be like if we were in a culture that really supported this happily ever after even after. Where we didn't have to torture each other, hate each other, spend so much money, and go bankrupt to break up with one another, to fight over the kids. What if we could keep the things that work and hopefully that would be friendship. 

Dr. Willow: Exactly. If you think about how much chi gets wasted, how much energy, and how much life force energy is wasted on doing breakups in a certain way. In my most recent one, we committed, our commitment to the breakup was like, let's do this in the sweetest, kindest, most loving way that we possibly can. And, it extended the journey of the breakup because we had to go slow and stay present and be honest. And even still over a year later, things are coming up. But we have maintained this beautiful friendship and relationship. The relationship didn't end, it just transformed. 

And that's what Guy exemplified with Lauren as well. They're still in a relationship. It's just transformed from what it used to be. And all along it was transforming all along. One of the things he said that I loved was, We were evolving so rapidly that it was hard for the relationship to keep up with each of our own individual evolution. Which is fascinating to bear witness to. 

Leah: And how lovely, as turbulent as it was, and I can testify, what a meaningful connection to have had your friend and lover go through it at the same time as you for eight years. You know, watching this growth, developing, and building things together. And it's one of those relationships that you will always hold dear.

Dr. Willow: Absolutely. 

Leah: Because you gained so much of who you are as a result of that connection and that season in your life when you are changing so fast. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, it's soul family, you know? It's a very special connection that doesn't have to go away. 

Leah: So we want to hear from you.

Would you like to hear more episodes regarding conscious uncoupling? And happily, after, after, even after. Let us know if that's something that you want to learn more about and we'll make sure we deliver it and bring you lots of great stories. Success. 

Dr. Willow: Yes, absolutely. 

Announcer: Thanks for tuning in. If the hosts seem to know what they were talking about, that's because they do.

Announcer: Leah Piper is a Tantric sex master coach and a positive psychology facilitator. Dr. Willow Brown is both a Chinese and functional medicine doctor and a Taoist sexology teacher. Don't forget your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.