Unlocking the Power of Pleasure by Healing Negative Beliefs

 

Willow: Welcome, welcome, welcome. So excited for today. We are in for a real treat with Lauren Harkness Lauren is a Tantrika, a Tantra Educator, an Orgasmic meditation Instructor, and a Jewelry Designer, and not to mention seductress. So many more things. I mean, this woman is a 

Leah: Snake Whisperer I might add. 

Willow: Snake Whisperer. We're gonna have to hear more about that. Uhhuh. Yes. A wealth of wisdom and information is about to pour through this goddess in front of us today. So Lauren takes a stand for everyone who is ready to heal and further ignite their sexual self. She also offers Private Tantra Sessions, which are so valuable, Orgasmic Meditation Training, so much fun and Coaching Sessions, as well as Reiki Attunements.

So she's really a Jill of all Trades. Love it. 

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show. 

Welcome, Lauren. We're so glad you're with us. 

Lauren: Aw, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and. So excited for this conversation.

Willow: Awesome. So today we're talking about how you can live from the pleasure within, like how you can live all of your life from that pleasurable place within. 

Leah: Yeah, I thought it would be fun, Lauren. Lauren is sister Hugs, 

Lauren: yay. 

Leah: A friend of mine I've known for quite a few years now, and her jewelry is epic.

I'm, I am remiss that I don't have a piece of your jewelry on right now. I will definitely wear a piece for another interview and point out that it's an original Lauren Harkness piece. But Lauren, I think it'd be fun to maybe start this interview about your, like Genesis story. Where did you come from?

 

[00:02:00] A Librarian's Daughter  

 

Leah: Like your beginning roots, what led you into this work? What was the catalyst that had you start looking into the sacred sexual arts? 

Lauren: Oh, what a great question. Thank you for asking. And I love hearing everyone's origin story because I feel like the seeds of our planting in childhood often lead us to what we're meant to do in the world.

And so that was most certainly true for me. I grew up in a family where there was a lot of repression and silence around sexuality and a lot of religious belief systems that were, I guess unconsciously programming me. But I just happened to be this wild little soul child with a lot of emotions and a lot of sexual energy.

And I grew up feeling wrong for who I was. So there was this like pressure cooker inside of me. Where like my inherent beingness and what I was taught, what I was supposed to be, were kind of at odds. And bless my family, I love them so much and we've worked through much of our healing together and we're very close now.

But that environment for me actually prompted me to go exploring. Because I was an explorer. And so I entered into my teen years very curious, and I had all this inherent sexual energy inside me, but I didn't know what to do with it. And I became very promiscuous and started having a lot of sex, but it was not a lot of sex I could feel. I was really up in my head, disconnected from my body. I couldn't feel below my neck. I didn't even know how to ask for what I wanted or needed. And I really, really felt broken. I guess, for me, the main feeling I had was that other people know how to do this well and I don't, and there's something wrong with me.

So I hit 27 around there and I knew that there was something I didn't know that I needed to know. Because I had all this really wild sexual energy. My mom said I've been a coquette since the day I was born. And so, it was coming out sideways and all sorts of different ways. And so I started studying and I took a bunch of personal growth classes, and I found a book where I learned a practice that I teach now in my women's work called Peaking, which is a clitoris stroking practice that sensitizes your whole vulva.

And I found this book and I, like a good librarian's daughter, did all the exercises and I ended up giving myself a four minute orgasm. Not a giant climax, but more like these rolling waves where you learn how to follow arousal in your body and you learn how to stretch your range of how much you can feel.

And what I didn't know at the time, and through my Tantric studies with Leah and Charles, I have learned about the sexual nerve pathways. So what was happening when I was 27 was I was sensitizing my pudendal nerve, which is part of the clitoral nerve network. And it grows into the pelvic nerve inside of your vaginal canal.

 

[00:05:15] 4 Minute Orgasms

 

Lauren: So after I gave myself this four minute orgasm, this kind of weird phenomenon started happening where I started to be able to orgasm with people, even without them even like moving inside of me. I just was so sensitive. I woke up. So that planted the seed for what I teach now for women, which is called erotic sovereignty. Because before that experience, my sexuality was really externalized and it was all about, my value and self-worth being connected to if I was with someone or, my sexuality was about other people.

And this turned the lens to, wow, if my body is this amazing instrument, I can learn how to make amazing music with whomever I choose, if I practice my skills and learn what this instrument is capable of. And I'm really thrilled to say that I have not yet hit a ceiling of pleasure. Like it just keeps growing and growing through all of my sexual awakenings that I've been blessed to experience.

And so that was really the turning point for me. It was the catalyst, feeling so broken and I didn't know how to orgasm with people. I couldn't orgasm with other people, but I could orgasm with myself. And so that was the turning point. And then I just kept studying.

So I've studied Tantra, Shamanism, Reiki, Quodoushka, BDSM, and plant medicine. I am like a sponge of exploration and learning, and I take all of the things that I study and practice them, assimilate them, and then share them with my students. And I feel so honored and blessed because I feel like I'm living my life's purpose and I really couldn't have asked for anything more.

And it's really been an unfolding journey. It wasn't something that I set out to do, but more that I discovered within myself that sexual healing and learning how to use the sexual energy as a catalyst for catharsis and emotional release and opening to pleasure pathways is truly a profound path.

And it's not for, I think it's for everyone, but it takes a lot of courage because it brings you into the dark shadows of your soul and your psyche as well as, activating all that's possible for you in your life. 

Leah: I was just gonna say, I am sure that it was really isolating that experience of feeling really broken and everyone else must be able to do this, but I can't.

And so I know I can relate to that broken feeling. I had the same story of there's something inherently wrong and broken in me that will never be loved. And if you are listening to this, and you have also felt those isolating experiences gain comfort that we're in this together, we're not doing this alone.

And the whole point of this re-imagining of a new world is us bringing our arms around each other and going, yeah, we're actually not meant to do this alone and you're not broken. You just forgot that you were whole. It's remembering that we have to engage. So I'm curious, Lauren, having felt like that isolation and having to encounter the shadow side that is so prevalent with our sexual culture and therefore our bodies, what are some of the biggest obstacles you've had to overcome?

Lauren: Oh, wow. That's what a great question. and yes, it's so accurate what you say. and I find that for so many people, they have the belief system that other people can have this, but not me. Or it's impossible. Or my trauma is gonna be the thing that I can't ever get through. And so I really pray for everyone to know that it's possible with dedication and work and mindfulness and sitting in the discomfort of uncomfortable feelings to actually work through those things. I've definitely had my own sexual trauma that I've had to work through, through the Tantric practices and sexual healing techniques.

 

[00:09:33] Judgement Obstacles - From Self, From Culture, From Others

 

Lauren: I've had to work through a lot of body shape and still do to be honest. I don't think this pathway is ever done. It's like, it keeps unfolding the layers of healing. And so I'm always digging deep into what's next. And so yes. Obstacles judgment from others actually.

Because when you start to wake up and you embody this sexual energy, you're exciting for others and you become permission for others, but you're also a threat and you also receive the judgment of all of what you said, like the shame of our culture that demonizes sexuality, even though it's such a big part of who we are. Like really, it's impossible to separate it. But so many of us have started with this compartmentalized version of our sexuality being separate from who we are.

So that process of integrating wasn't comfortable for me. It was definitely a journey of self discovery. 

Willow: I love this humbleness and this authenticness that you're bringing forward right now. I think it really brings a lot of hope because so many people are still in that place of like, it's possible for so-and-so, but not for me. You know,and these, multiple orgasms and squirting orgasms, all these different styles of orgasms can sometimes come more naturally to some bodies than others, but it doesn't mean that the mechanism is not there for all of us. 

And I'd be so curious to steer this conversation, Lauren, toward how you've been using plant medicine in opening up those possibilities and helping people remember themselves, come back into that truth of their wholeness.

 

[00:11:24] Plant Medicine & Kundalini are Speaking Different Languages but Saying the Same Thing.

 

Lauren: Oh, what a great question. God, I love plant medicine. It's so deeply connected to the intrinsic parts of who we are. And I have really careful boundaries around Tantric practices and plant medicine practices, and they don't intertwine at the same time. But I do work with people in both channels, and I find them to be, I almost feel like the Kundalini energy and the places that plant medicine takes you are like speaking two different languages, but saying the same thing. Because I've experienced for myself and with other people that I work with, so much lineage healing and deep ancestral trauma healing through the plant medicine work. Because it takes you to a place of consciousness where you get to be an observer and witness what's really happening under so many of your unconscious belief systems or your patterns that keep repeating.

and what I find with plant medicine is it really enables deep lasting change, especially through the integration process after a ceremony. Like that time between getting this golden nugget and then doing your next journey and getting the next golden nugget is so important because it removes the ego that wants to keep you throttled in the same thing.

Lauren: And Tantric sessions or healing sessions or sexual. It's similar because it takes you to a place of awareness that's outside of time and space and you get to feel the power that moves through your Chakras. And so you can have an emotional release or you can be in this dreamy, ecstatic state and have downloads and creative ideas and things that are burst within you, through your sexual practices.

So I find that they go hand in hand really well. And I also feel like it's really important to create sacred boundaries around each of them because you don't actually need them both in each other. And because there's so much trauma that lives in our body, especially around sexuality, it can be a little bit overwhelming if they were to be combined.

Willow: Yeah, I love that you're speaking to that because I have, done and experienced and utilized plenty of plant medicine on my own personal journey. And what I have found with the sexual healing work and the oxytocin that runs through your body and the endorphins and all the hormones is they simulate, they are one and the same.

They create the same sort of opening expansion of healing and of consciousness that the plant medicine brings. And so I really appreciate that you're saying like, you don't really need them together, that it could blow a circuit. It could be too much. 

Lauren: So well said. 

Leah: You know, you mentioned this, who you were before when you first started your journey, like the judgment of promiscuity and the deep concern and worry that there was something broken and the lovability.

Having now been on this path for so long, having done all this work being a leader in the industry, how would you describe yourself now? What has really transformed and changed?

 

[00:14:51] Who Are You Now After Healing and Transforming So Much?

 

Lauren: Wow, I've never been asked that question. I love that. Thank you. Let's see, who am I now? I would say now I'm a woman who's really rooted in herself and who feels the power of co-creation with life.

I don't feel separate from life. I feel like I'm a part of life. And what that's done for me is it's increased my abundance consciousness. So my money has transformed. It's allowed me to sit as a leader in the community and share wisdom. What I used to do when I was in college was dim my light. Or I was a singer and I would sing half a song and then feel shy and shut down. So I don't do that anymore. 

I feel the confidence that comes from being within myself and I get really deep fulfillment from helping others. And I don't think that when I started I had any kind of self-concept that loved myself or appreciated what I had to offer other people. 

Leah: That's beautiful. Congratulations. 

Lauren: Thank you. 

that was a beautiful description and I'm curious who's your ideal person to work with? Who do you love to work with the most? 

Lauren: I love that question.

 

[00:16:21] Lauren's Work with Women

 

Lauren: I love working with women.

I do work with men, women, and couples, but I'm doing a lot of kind of hybrid classes where we have some online components and some in-person components. And so I have an eight week class that I call Erotic Sovereignty and then a deeper journey called Sex Witch. And I love working with women who not only feel the potential in their own life of embodying their sexual energy and developing their magic skills, but also women who have trauma to heal.

I do work with a lot of people who have sexual trauma, who have been held back by that in the past. So I really support women in going through the process of feeling the discomfort because your body will surface what's ready to heal. And that's not always a comfortable experience. It brings up emotions from the past and memories, and I find that it's somehow my contract with spirit that I get to support people through that process into their power and their potential.

Leah: I think that's something that is really unique therapeutically, especially in the neo Tantra world, where we're using these modalities of somatic, conscious, intentional love going into the whole body, no parts are left behind. And we're bringing wholeness. And we're allowing love to infuse the body, and the nervous system, and the tissues, and the cells, and the Chakras to flush out anything that isn't love. So that can be moved up out of the way so that there's more space for love to live here. Because that's really, what we're here to do, is to do this loving thing. 

Do you have a miracle story, like a before and after of a client who, if you could describe like who they were when they showed up and then having done the work with you, like the miracle you got to witness and now who they are.

I just love before and afters. 

Lauren: Oh my God. What a great question. Yes. I have so many, so many, but who's coming to mind is one of my favorite clients, her name is Ronnie. She is 76 and she came to me when she was 68, out of a 20 year unhappy marriage and had been by herself for almost 20 years after that.

And we started with Om Training and I tell you now, she is like the most responsive, incredible, Ferrari of a woman that I have ever met. And she has not only had love affairs and long lasting relationships, but she's now currently opening to manifest her next partner. And I love her. She says she's always happy now because she like lives in her happy place and when things come, she knows how to shift her energy.

and she's such a great example for my community too, because so many women have this thought and we get taught, that we go through menopause and our sexuality dies. But I think it's actually just you have to learn a new language for engaging with desire and libido in your body. And so she's like such a glowing example of being multi-orgasmic and this fountain of vitality at her age, and it's really beautiful to witness. 

Leah: Yay Ronnie!. 

Willow: 76. I mean, that brings so much hope to anyone who's like, oh, I'm too old, or,a 20 year marriage, you know, of dissatisfaction.

So, I mean, if Ronnie can do it, you can do it too. 

Lauren: Absolutely. 

Willow: What are you feeling like super inspired by in your work right now? What's really lighting you up in your journey these days?

 

[00:20:18] The Power of Community

 

Lauren: I feel like I'm kind of on a precipice of creation right now. My partner and I just bought our first home. And it's gonna be a community space and a retreat center, and it has a full size tepee. And so we have many events planned this summer from Plant Medicine Ceremonies to Tantric Retreats. And I feel really, I feel really personally connected to community and that is so important, especially as people are doing their personal growth.

Because when you have like-minded people by your side to cheer you on through the challenges and also through the successes, like anything is possible. And so there's this kind of communal way of living that I'm really passionate about right now. And I feel like so many people around the world right now are in the same boat of really caring about their intimate community.

And I think that, we have a personal responsibility for our own evolution, and then that touches our interpersonal relationships and then that touches the transpersonal. So I do feel really connected to the idea that us in community as sovereign beings who are working on themselves, actually change the world.

And not in a grandiose way, but in a really intimate, loving way. Because I think bonding and connection is healing for the soul. 

Willow: That's so powerful and that, that level of change in the world is a sustainable level, right? Because it's coming from deep inside of that soul shift. Once you cross that threshold and you shift that your perspective and what's possible for you in the world, you don't wanna go back.

You never go back. .And then you bring that into the world, you ripple that out into the world and that's not only does it give others permission to do the same, but it shows them different potential ways that they could, find their own path. So it's so powerful. I love that's lighting you up right now and congratulations on just purchasing this beautiful home. It's great that you're gonna have all these live events. People are so hungry and ready for the live events and keeping these more intimate containers so that people can feel safe and really go deep into the depths of their souls. Such a huge service. 

Leah: Lauren, I've watched you in two really meaningful relationships since the time that I've known you and I'm curious, like for someone who's newly fallen in love, what would be some of your sage advice?

Like what do you think is a really good foundational, conscientious,

is the word advice, is it a tool, is it a practice? I'm not sure. What is it that you would offer that you think is a really supportive thing to have a more successful relationship.

 

[00:23:20] Tools for Couples 

 

Leah: What is a foundational tool or insight you could give the audience? 

Lauren: Oh, you ask great questions, let's see, the first thing that comes to mind is; Solo Practice. That each person in the couple maintains their own relationship to Self, and their own passions, and their own practices, because that individual development makes for really beautiful intimacy and supports people in healing their codependency. So I really do feel like a foundation of we are individuals who are in love rather than we're melting into one Being is a huge foundational tool for success over the long term. 

Leah: Beautiful. And what about for someone who's really they're longing for the beloved, they just want the beloved. Just hurry up and get here. What would be your sage goddess advice for that being? 

Lauren: Oh, that is a great question also.

 

[00:24:31] Advice for Singles Searching for the Beloved

 

Lauren: My advice would be to practice relating by relating. Because I see so many people holding out for that one and saving themselves and not dating or not taking the chance on love. And every time you go out there and you practice dating or having intimacy, or even just having friendship, you're becoming better at relationship.

So I would say that while you're in the process of opening yourself to the beloved and to that partnership that you're longing and craving, don't hide yourself in your house. Keep going out. Keep exploring, keep dating, and that person will find you when you're lit up with all this beautiful energy from the intimacy in your life.

Willow: I love how you put that. I'm always telling, my clients and patients like relationship is a practice. So whether or not you end up, growing old and having this whole lifetime together or not is kind of irrelevant. All that you are really doing is practicing with them in the moment, practicing with them at this point in time in your life.

And it takes so much pressure off, like trying to figure out like, can I spend my whole life with this person? Am I with the right person? It offers you a different way of viewing what you're in. 

Lauren: So well said. And you get to enjoy the person you're in front of, rather than creating like this avatar of the perfect partner that they have to fit in the box of, you know, you get to be in relationship with the person you're with, whether it's a friendship or develops into something more.

Willow: Yeah, absolutely. And there's a level of presence that's required for that, which has to be cultivated inside of you as an individual. And that can be done through a myriad of different ways, but meditation practices, Tantric practices, Qi Gong and yoga, all of these different ways of experiencing presence. Because you can't you can't receive what is right in front of you if you can't really be present to it. 

Leah: You know, something we haven't really talked a lot about yet, Lauren, that I know you would have a lot of experience with is the power of separating the role of the giver and the receiver.

And how that can affect a romantic relationship or a dating relationship or even 2 like Tantra buddies who are trying to do their work. Can you say a little bit about your direct experience of the separation of the giver and the receiver in a sexual experience? 

Lauren: Yes. Great question.

 

[00:27:19] Giving + Receiving

 

Lauren: And I learned so much of this from you actually. Receiving is generous. And, a lot of us get conditioned that our value comes from giving. And when we do that, we're blocking the energy circuit that actually flows between two people when there's balance, which is that there is giving and there is receiving.

And if one person is always giving and the other person is always receiving, the person who's giving feels depleted and the person who's receiving feels over full and like they don't wanna be around them anymore. So this practicing of both roles actually gives you the fluidity to be able to do both in a relationship.

But if you're a practiced only giving, it can be very difficult to receive because it's so vulnerable. Like you have to reveal yourself. You have to reveal your wants and your needs and risk disappointment in order to allow yourself to receive. So I find that when you separate the roles and you do a practice where one person is giving, one person is receiving, often you'll start to see your habits.

You'll see, oh, well I'm using giving to deflect, receiving, you know? I'm using giving to avoid my own work and it can be really illuminating. And in couples it can be very balancing to do session work where you're switching roles because often there is a dynamic at play in a relationship, and so it can balance the scales.

Leah: I've noticed that it seems, like you said, most people tend to be really strong in one or the other. And really allowing yourself to go out of your comfort zone and get better at the thing that you're less familiar with. and gain your equalizing skillset a little bit more.

I think what else is interesting about the whole giver and receiver is it gives us a chance to really meditate on having one job. It's kinda of relief to not feel like you gotta do both jobs at the same time, but you can go, okay, this is my turn to fully concentrate. I'm pouring my love into somebody through my hands and my breath and my eyes and my words.

Or to like, really pay attention to receiving where it's a meditation and I'm just tracking. My only job is to follow the sensation, and sometimes what I'm following is that I'm leaving my body. I'm suddenly up on the ceiling. Ok, let's see if I can follow the way back home and now let me feel sensation again, and have the space and the time without any goals.

Who am I? Who are we? Who am as I study my pleasure? AndI think what's so sweet is like the subtlety of sensation begins to reveal itself. And in the subtlety we find these beautiful nooks and crannies that begin to vibrate and then become magnetic.

Leah: And then the next thing you know, you're having the biggest experience of your life. And it started off with this little sensation that we usually bypass when we're trying to do the same thing to each other. That's being done to us. Yeah. 

Willow: I'm curious if you both have seen this, because I certainly have in my work of all these years that it's the receptive part, the actual dropping in and really, really being present to receiving love and touch and acknowledgement and adornment is very difficult for women, much more difficult for women than it is for men.

And what's so interesting is I always think of receptivity as the feminines greatest superpower. And I think it's fascinating that we as women have been conditioned to give, give, give, to be in that, seemingly opposite poll of the giver rather than the receiver.

Curious what you guys have seen in your work? 

Isn't it interesting that, like culturally, I think as women, there's a nurturing aspect that we're groomed to be somehow adept at. But I'm personally a much better receiver than I am a giver. I had to learn how to give, I was scared of like men's body.

Leah: I don't what to do with them. And I thought, well, if I'm having a good time, they'll have a good time. So I said, okay, you can do me. But it wasn't coming from knowledge in either one. It was just one was less scary than the other. What about for you, Lauren? Were you a stronger giver or a stronger receiver?

Lauren: Oh, definitely a stronger giver. I have noticed so many ways that I've deflected my own receiving by giving. A constant journey of unfolding. But I will say now I'm a very good receiver as well because I had to notice that it is generous to the giver. It's like if someone gives you a present, And you're like, eh, that's nice.

You know? How does it feel to the giver? It feels terrible. So I had to notice from the people I was giving to how pleasurable it was when they would receive my gift. And when I had to turn it the other way. 

Leah: Beautiful. What about you, Willow? 

Willow: I. Have always been a great giver. I think I had to learn receiving. I actually remember the year that, I don't remember what year it was, but I remember there was one year it was like, okay, I'm gonna become a super receiver this year. And I received so much abundance that year it was incredible. 

Leah: Wow. 

and maybe it's because I am a naturally more of a, giver and come from that sort of modeling of the mother who does everything for everyone else at the expense of her own comfort.

I had to really rewind that patterning inside of myself and find the place where, exactly what you're saying, Lauren, where the receiving is a gift in and of itself, not only to me and my system and what's becoming more embedded in me, but also to whomever is giving to me. It's a gift to receive with grace and with presence.

Leah: There's something really powerful about fully arriving in the receiving state where you are taking in the love that is present to be explored. And I think one of the things I always loved when I had a private practice that I worked with sessions where I would teach and template how to be a better toucher and to teach sacred spot massage and using my body as a template there were many practitioners who were uncomfortable being in that position, but for me, I always loved it because someone got to win every time.

Because I knew A, what I wanted, what I liked, I knew how to share it in a way that would excite them and help them feel like that they were doing a good job because they were doing a good job. I think what so many people miss out on when they don't practice receiving is that someone will listen so carefully if you give them a map, but you can't give a map that you don't have. So you have to kinda go on the journey of discovering A, that you have a map to your pleasure. And then b, learning the art of communicating what would feel so amazing, and then to express, oh, how wonderful it feels. And I think my favorite part of that journey of exploration.

I'm curious what the two of you have learned too, regarding this is, There's something, there's just a huge turn on of having a partner be so captivated they will listen. I don't know, maybe I've been ignored by men too much my life, and somehow it's a total turn on to have their undivided total attention.

Tell me what you wanted. I'll do it. And then 

Willow: it's pretty hot thing, I think, for anyone. 

Lauren: It's pretty wonderful 

Leah: to be listened to! Everyone out there. 

Willow: To be acknowledged and seen. I mean, that's all a woman wants. 

Leah: If you wanna have the hottest sex, be a good listener. 

Willow: That's right.

Lauren: Absolutely. That's right. 90% of communication is listening. It's not about the speaking. 

Leah: It's so good.

 

[00:36:01] The Role of Shamanism in Healing Work

 

Willow: Lauren, tell us a little more about how you bring Shamanism into your work.

Lauren: Wow. Well, I think that these practices have worked through me in a surprising way because opening the door to sexual healing work, I all of a sudden it was like I became this hollow bone that spirit came through.

So I would have these experiences of not understanding why, but the instinct inside of me would be to move like a hip one way. And then, a cry would erupt from like their very beingness. And then I would get this message to ask them about their experience at three years old. 

And, and those things came upon me by surprise. I studied psychology and I was an artist. And I had no idea that I would receive this gift, that to be a sexual healer and to have this clear sentience where I can actually feel things in my body that other people are feeling in their body.

And I can track where it's going or where it's come from and help it transform. When I was in my twenties, I received Shamonic healing and I had past life regressions and it was so cool. I loved it. But I had no self-concept that I also had that gift inside ,of me. And I think many people do, many people have these deep instinctual knowings that they ignore.

And if they were to actually listen to them, they would be surprised at how accurate they are. 

Leah: So would you say that was a skill that you went and learned, or was it something that you began to notice, trust, and then experimented in the delivery and turned out to go well? 

Lauren: Yeah, that second part. it was a creative time of my life. I gave my former partner at the time, my first session and he started to cry and it was like my body took over and knew what to do. And then every time I practiced with someone or gave someone a session, those skill sets kept increasing and kept getting deeper and, and more vast. It's such an amazing thing when you start to trust that. I hope that the listeners here can absorb what Lauren just templated, like the mirror neurons that she's giving us right now, like the, what she knows how to do, what she just described, you can also tap into, it's really like trusting in magic and getting outta your own way and letting it come through you and just taking a little leap of faith.

Willow: Oh, it's so powerful. And would you say, Lauren, that when you drop into that shamonic state, there's a release of the mind? There's like a you're dropping into more of a feeling state, an embodied state. How would you describe it? 

Lauren: Absolutely. it's a liminal state. It often, the mind just quiets and thinking if you do any thinking, it gets in the way. It's, it's really a feeling, and a knowing, and a listening, and then taking action from that listening. And, most people have intuition, but often they ignore it. It's about really following the action of those sometimes very illogical things. Like even if you get this instinct like, I'm supposed to go to this coffee shop today.

Oh, well, it's all the way across town and I don't need to go there, and that doesn't make any sense, so I'm just gonna not do that. But those weird whispers of instinct, they're always right. They're always, always, always right. 

Leah: That's such a good reminder. 

Willow: And they lead you to the next right step as well. So that's how the journey unfolds in this beautiful, pleasurable, upward spiral way instead of, you know, oh damn, I should have listened to my intuition. I knew it. Now look at where I'm at now. Look at what I'm dealing with. and we were just talking about this in another interview where the opportunity to listen to your intuition in that particular way is going to continue to come up over and over again until you start to listen.

Until you get good at it. And it's a practice.

 

[00:40:24] Trusting Your Intuition vs Your Head

 

Lauren: Absolutely. And what Leah said earlier, I think is so important too, because in this way that our sexual practices mirror life. Like when you have goallessness, then it's a choose your own adventure novel that comes from what you said, like the next right step, and then the next right step, and the next right step rather than having something in your mind at first. Because I don't know about you both, but I've made choices like, oh well that job makes sense. I'm supposed to be this. You know, and made a choice from a goal rather than from what felt right inside, and every time I've done that, I've had to undo it later because it wasn't the right choice.

Willow: Absolutely. And I think what's, what can be really challenging about this for the human brain is like, we like to feel safe. We like to feel secure. We like to know where we're going and what's next. We wanna have that sense of control, safety, security. Yes. Control. All of those things. 

And really what happens is we get myopic around what's actually possible for us and our lives. And when we let go of that and we let the mystery of life unfold, right as we're about to take that next step often that next step is just above and beyond what you could have imagined was possible.

Willow: So, we're bringing forth sex reimagined so that you can begin to imagine that you don't even know what you could have imagined. It's even beyond what you could, your wildest dreams could come up with. 

Leah: It's kinda like what Charles Muir says, it's like "how big is big anyways?"

Like you think you know big and then suddenly you just hit the new level of big and you blew the ceiling off of it. 

Like there's something about the mystery that remains the mystery and I find it very challenging actually. I think some people, like you said, Willow something's come easier.

Sometimes there are certain bodies where pleasure is a little bit easier than it is for other bodies, but we all have the same equipment.

 

[00:42:41] Learning how to Trust the Unknown & the Mystery

 

Leah: I think sometimes some people are better at trusting the unknown and trusting the mystery, and the rest of us have to learn how to cultivate that. What have you learned about cultivation, Lauren? When it comes to that kind of trust?

Lauren: That's a really important point because it is scary. The unknown is scary every time. It's not like it gets easier I'll give you an example. Last summer we moved into a house in New Jersey that was gonna be the perfect house, because it was perfect on paper and it was gonna be our journey house and it was everything we wanted and it all happened so easily.

But that choice was not coming from inside. So we moved in nine days later it flooded because it was in a flood plane with the hurricane. We had horrible landlords who ended up taking all of our money and it was absolutely a disaster. it was soul crushing. And what I learned then that I didn't know I needed to know to buy this house was, I had to be willing to risk everything. Learn that I could recreate from scratch. And there now I had the courage to go for this really bigger investment. And I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't followed those weird instinctual things that sometimes look like destruction that end up being the seeds of your bigger creations that are beyond your wildest dreams.

So it takes courage and what I've learned is to trust the process even when it looks like my whole life is falling apart for some odd reason that I didn't expect. But to know that every time I've gone through it, a death of sorts, there's always a rebirth that's even better. And when you take the courage to go there, you start to trust that.

And so it gets easier every time, even though it's, you always feel the fear and the excitement of the unknown. Like they're the same, they're the same emotion, fear and excitement. So it never goes away. It's that you learn how to trust that as you take those leaps of faith. 

Leah: That is such a good story. That is such a good example. 

Willow: And I love, I appreciate your story so much, Lauren. because I'm in it right now. I'm like, okay, let me appreciate losing my beloved home that I've been in for 13 years. I've got 15 days left, and I'm just appreciating every high, every low, every up, every down, every in, every out.

Because what else can I do? You know? 

Leah: And I love that it keeps on showing us proof. We had a house we were set to buy here in Sacramento. The day we got the keys, they pulled out of the deal. I already had bought furniture for the whole house. It was already special ordered for this house.

Lauren: Oh my God. 

Leah: And we lost the house. But you know, two months, six weeks later, we found an even better house. And I don't do any remodeling. And the furniture is just fine, you know? Sure it was a pain in the ass, but there's always something better. 

Lauren: It's so true. I love that story. That's so exciting. And when we get fixated, oh, this brings us all the way back to attachment, right?

The whole conversation of attachment and surrender and Tantra is so important. Cause you know, it's easy to get fixated on one person being the right beloved, or one home being the right home, or one job being the right job. One way being the way that we get to actualize. But when we fixate on one thing, we miss out on what happens next.

If you get out of the way and say, okay, wow, shit, this really hurts. I need to cry and grieve this loss, but I know something better is coming. 

Leah: Which is why I love the word you used willow, you said myopic. I'm gonna start using that word. 

Willow: That's a good word. 

Leah: It's a great word. Zoom out and you'll see the big picture?

Willow: And you know what you were talking about just a moment ago, Lauren, is this level of trust that has to be in place, of course, because when we're talking about sexuality, trust is a big piece of it.

 

[00:46:50] Why No One Hiring Her Made Her a Ton of Money.

 

Willow: And so what we're in the midst of talking about right now is that you can apply it to every aspect of life to financial freedom, which you sort of just glossed over.

I'd love to actually hear more about that, of how your money changed when you dropped into that deeper level of trust and surrender and opening to universal flow. 

Lauren: Oh wow. That's been such a journey. I started as a jewelry designer and I had about two years of fear and scarcity that I had to work through.

It was like my business was a spiritual practice, and thank God I started my business in the recession in 2009 and no one would hire me. So I had saved up like $10,000 and I blew through it in six months and I was out of money. And so I was trying to get a job in this new city I lived in, and no one would hire me.

And I'm so glad they didn't. Because if I had gotten a job, I never would've become an entrepreneur and learned how I had to figure it out. And when you have to figure it out, that means anything is possible. So then I started to play with money and I started to dream bigger goals. Or I would set a goal, like I would say, oh, okay, now I wanna make $20,000 this month.

These are the ways that the money might come in. And even if I made $16,000 or something, I was still cheering myself on because that it became a game. And it was so fun to play it, even when, because being an entrepreneur, I'm sure you both know, can be really scary because some months it's like nothing.

It's like crickets. And then some months, there's a lot of flow. And it taught me a lot about life actually, and about being in my feminine body, where we bleed and then we ovulate. There is ebb and flow in the feminine of life. And I had to learn how to trust that and surrender into it, to not feel scarce or there was no money coming in when it was a low month. But to turn my attention towards, oh, well maybe I'm gonna learn a new skill this month because I have more time on my hands, and then when it was time to hustle, like then the money would come in and it was fun to work a lot. 

Leah: Appreciate, appreciate, appreciate. 

Lauren: Appreciate, appreciate. Yep. and also having big goals, like I've made so much money in the last two years because I've had this goal of a home and community. And I'm also, we're trying to have a baby, so I feel like these, when you shoot high, then you are totally surprised by what you could achieve.

Willow: You know, one of my favorite metaphors for that is surfing. Like, when you're surfing and you wanna get standing up right at the center of your board, you don't look down at the center of the board, you look up out where you wanna go. Like you look several feet out in front of you. Same thing in yoga, when you're jumping from like a downward dog to you know, forward fold, you wanna look about a foot out in front of where you wanna land.

So that aiming high, that high expectation, and who cares? You made $16,000 instead of $20,000 that month. That's great. That's a total celebration, so it's powerful. 

Lauren: Oh, I love that. And you remind me too, like when you're surfing, you also stand up, right when you feel the wave hit the back of the board.

If you stand up, when you think you're supposed to stand up, you tip over and you crash. You know, you have to go right when the wave lifts the back. 

Willow: So there's a timing, there's an instinct to this listening to your intuition. And, as you mentioned too, Lauren, it's not logical. A lot of the times it doesn't make sense to the brain.

So you've gotta really listen from the heart or the gut, these other brains in your body. 

Leah: I think that brings up an interesting issue, because what arises in me when I hear the two of you talk about that, remember I'm the one that has sometimes has a hard time trusting in the mystery. It's like when the wave hits the back of the board, that's also a willingness to say no.

Yes, until the timing's right and when you suffer from the disease to please. You know that saying no, because the wave hasn't hit the back of the board yet. I think that's a really beautiful metaphor, and a way for me to wrap my mind around the measurement piece of stepping into greater trust is like there is a honey spot.

if you really reflect, the places where you've had wins and successes and you've been in flow and you're connected to your gut and all that stuff. There is a honey spot when you know it's right. Yep. And to only respond to that. Is that the advice you would give?

Lauren: Absolutely. I've definitely responded when it wasn't right, and I've had great learning lessons from it, but I do think you're right on the money. If you listen and you say no when it's not right. You get more opportunities to say yes when it is right, because you're trusting yourself.

And I think building that authentic relationship between yes and no is so important for every person. 

Leah: So that's a felt sense worth putting our attention on and cultivating. 

Willow: Absolutely. Lauren, it has been such a pleasure. We could wrap out for hours. You can dish for hours. Hours. we're gonna have to have you come on our podcast down the line again.

Lauren: Yeah, love to.

 

[00:52:38] Free Gift from Lauren

 

Willow: And I believe you have a gift that you wanna share with our listeners. Tell us a little bit about that. 

Lauren: Yes, it is a grounding meditation because I am really passionate about people knowing that they can change their state at will. They can go from stressed out and crunchy, too calm and centered in five minutes.

It doesn't take a lot to get yourself into this really beautiful place of feeling at home in yourself. So it is my pleasure to offer that to the community. 

Willow: That is such a wonderful gift. So needed. And I would love to, to wrap up our conversation, Lauren, with just like final words of wisdom for anyone who is really just maybe they're, they haven't started their sexual awakening journey, but they know they need to and they're afraid to invest, and they're, they don't know how to find the time for it, and they're just kind of like, I know I need to go over there, but I don't know how, what would you say?

 

[00:53:43] Parting Advice to Someone New just Stating their Awakening Journey....

 

Lauren: I would say jump into a community. It's, it'll save you because having that accountability of other people who are doing the practice and doing the work at the same time will help you through your resistance. Because if you are like, I'm just gonna, I'm not gonna do this until I have a partner, or I'm not gonna do this because it's embarrassing.

So I'm gonna read a book about it and then put that book on the shelf and not do it. It, it'll just, it will save you years of avoidance to just sign up for a class and jump into community. Yes. I love that. and when you're doing it in numbers like that, you get, you also get inspired and you see like, oh, I'm not alone.

Willow: Oh, that person was where I was two years ago, and now there's hope for me to be where they are now. 

Lauren: Oh yes, a hundred percent. 

Leah: Lauren, I know that you work with people privately and you've got a Radiant Retreat coming up What, can you 

Tell us a little bit about that? Yes, absolutely.

[00:54:43] Lauren: I have the Radiance Retreat for Women will be in August in New York, in my home upstate, which I am turning into a retreat center as we speak. And it'll be a week of embodiment, embodiment work for women to dive into their body, to feel good, to explore pleasure and emotional release techniques and embodiment workshops.

And, I probably will sprinkle in a little BDSM. And it's really fun. And, and this is a group, this is a group event. A group event, yep. And then I'm also always open for private sessions. And then I am planning in the fall to do a Radiant Ecstasy immersion, which will be a weekend workshop as well.

Beautiful. 

Willow: So many good things coming through. Lauren Hartness. Stay tuned in with her. Yes. Thank you. Thank you Lauren. Such a pleasure to be with you today. Lauren, thank you so much 

Lauren: to be with you both as well. Thank you so much for the fun conversation. Love, love, love.

 

[00:55:48] The Dish

 

Lauren: Now our favorite part, the dish.

Leah: Okay. Sex. Re-imagining with Lauren Harkness. 

Willow: She was so lovely to be with. I just, my nervous system loved hers. 

Leah: So she has a soothing, grounding presence. 

Willow: She does, she's got a Pachamama energy about her. 

Leah: Yeah, she does. I think one of my big takeaways is like, really being in my own imagination, encountering the mystery from a new place. Encountering disappointment or something that you really want.

Like her story about the house, falling through and thinking it was really the one, and then it just like coming undone and just disaster and all of that. And then to discover that where she's really supposed to be is somewhere else. Sometimes you have to be willing to go through whatever the attachment is in order to get to the place you're really supposed to be and to be in grace with 

Leah: it. 

Willow: Yeah, yeah, the deep surrender that she exemplified. being able to really surrender and accept and be with what is really does open you up to the next realm. And she's such a great example of that. And one of the things that I love that she brings is just a myriad of different modalities.

You know, shamonic practices, Tantric practices, the plant medicine journey work she's started to incorporate as well. I just think that her ability to be with surrender, acceptance, and openness to what is really has brought her on a really cool journey. 

Leah: You're right. Like really the theme of her interview was about surrender, wasn't it?

It was really about the cultivation of knowing how to, being willing to, accepting the journey of surrender. And It's a place as I look back on my own life, okay, I can see where like surrender was a big focus of my growth. You know, like really stepping into that place of femininity, that the teaching of surrender through the yin lens, through the feminine lens and how powerful those times in my life were. And how it's also kind of easy to have it slip through as different seasons of life come in, and where the yang is being called forward. And you can get really caught up in that because our culture prizes the yang qualities of achieving goals and productivity. 

Willow: Getting it done. 

Leah: Getting things done. 

Willow: The check list. 

Leah: And achieving and creating form and like all these things that are awesome, but what gets diminished and less celebrated is this place of surrender that we're all invited to step into. But it's something we have to bring into our awareness. We have to like, remember that this requires our attention. 

Willow: And I think one of the resistances around surrendering is it seems like it's a weakness, like it's a laying down of what you desire or your truth. 

Leah: It's a submission instead of a surrender. And they're different things, right? 

Willow: It's very different. Even in submission, there is a sense of surrendering, but I think that it just depends on your view and how you're looking at it and how you wanna use that word in your own world. But yeah, if there 's a strong thread of acceptance in the surrender, then you are basically meeting the situation where it's at.

And one of the things Lauren's currently meeting in her own life is her journey with fertility. And that is such a journey for so many couples and women, that doesn't always go the way they anticipated it would or planned it would. 

And so when you meet that journey or any journey you're trying to meet with this deep thread of accepting what is, then you can really basically you become less myopic, less focused on it needs to be this way, and look that way or it's not right. And then you get to be open and expanded to all the possibilities than finding all these threads that are right for you that you didn't even know existed. So there's that reimagine piece right in there. 

Leah: That's interesting, just the word... okay. So the two words that that arose that I think I always struggled with when it comes to surrender are the submitting and accepting. There's something, I think the submitting resistance comes from growing up in a really Christian framework where this whole idea of a woman must submit to her husband and he's the leader in the patriarchy. Like all that stuff, I just, it was like I was not attracted to the submissive wife role. Like really rebelled against that concept and thought form. 

Willow: You? You were not. 

Leah: So surrender felt like more of a sexy thing...

Willow: yeah, yeah. 

Leah: ...to play with, like those distinctions were important to separate for me. But now as we journeyed into like the intersection of BDSM and Tantra, there is this draw towards submission. There is this desire to wanna submit, and then you can see where the surrender comes into the art of submission. So it's like there's another... I'm more ready. I've done enough work to now start to play into a new playground, which I think is really cool to have language change it's meaning, change for you. 

And then when I heard you say acceptance, You know, it's just kind of like, I dunno, I just kinda don't like that word. I don't wanna just accept it, it's like, it's like takes a steam outta my sails. It just seems like such crap. You've gotta just accept it.

I don't know, it's like my little inner two year old, just like, I'm not gonna accept it! But you're right. Like there is a place where in order to get the more expanded view, in order to see the sunset fully. 

Willow: Right. 

Leah: Just be a lover of this reality right now. You're going through something challenging. It's so hard to love that reality. But if you can come to a place of acceptance, it's through that acceptance that grace occurs. That's. and you learn to love what is. You learn to accept the challenge, to accept the obstacle. to choose, to go, this is happening for me, not to me. 

Willow: That's right.

Leah: And then the surrendered state and the pleasure of it and the 

Willow: submission 

Leah: And then the realization is I wouldn't change it if I could go back. 

Willow: That's right. Yes. Exactly. 

Leah: So it's like our hardships, it brings us back to, it creates our resilience. And there's been studies that talk about overcoming obstacles and meeting adversarial experiences in life. That the people who encounter more adversarial experiences in life have higher rates and life satisfaction scores than people who have very few adversarial life experiences.

So the people with few adversarial life experiences are not as happy.

Willow: It makes perfect sense 

Leah: then the ones that have had more. 

Willow: Yeah, it makes perfect sense because it's a muscle that you're building, you know, and... 

Leah: But here's where it doesn't make sense for people, parents. Because look at how much parents are trying to protect their children from encountering obstacles and adversarial experiences.

It's like we're all trying to avoid that from happening to our kids. 

Willow: Don't let them have any 

Leah: pain. 

...to not have to deal with those troubles. And it's like, do you know you're robbing your children of a true happiness because when they can realize that they are strong enough. 

So there's a thread with that and surrender. As a parent, like having to surrender that your kid's life is your kid's life. I shouldn't be talking about any of this shit because I'm not a parent. But I do find that's an interesting correlation and I think it's a natural instinct is you can't help but wanna protect your children.

Willow: Absolutely. It's a tricky one and 

Leah: It's a tricky one 

Willow: and I think there comes a time in a parent's life because I've studied parenting, although I'm not one either, but I have studied it. 

Leah: It's a passion of yours. 

Willow: Yes. And I really think that there's a turning point in your child's life because it's like they're an infant, you're protecting them to a certain point. And then, right around 5, 6, 7, 8, it's like, okay, you gotta let them fall and get hurt and build up their resilience and start to practice these muscles.

Teach them about accepting things and self efficacy. Yeah, exactly. It really helps open the heart of a child so that they grow into an adult who has these skills and as you said, just has more happiness overall in life because they, no matter what comes, they know that they have tools to get through it. Because shit's gonna happen to all of us. 

Leah: Shit's gonna happen to all of us. And really one of these other stages as adults that hopefully we're walking ourselves through is reparenting ourselves. 

Willow: Yes. 

Leah: And I think that this is where like the surrender and the acceptance. 

Willow: Yes. 

Leah: And being a lover of reality and using our mind more powerfully to talk back to the things it's like, it's not fair and I don't want to do it, you know, it's like you have to like self soothe and allow yourself to open. 

And so I feel like this episode helped bring home all these pieces of the puzzle. 

Willow: Lauren really just embodied all of it and shared it so eloquently and beautifully. It was fantastic. 

Listeners be on the lookout for an interview with Guy Shahar. Because he brings some personal stories between him and Lauren to the table that I think you'll find interesting. And we will also look out for an episode with Guy and Lauren together as we talk about conscious uncoupling and happily ever after, even after. And so that will all be coming somewhere for your listening enjoyment. Coming to your listening Enjoyment. That sounds weird.

Lauren: any who? Love, love, love. 

Thanks for tuning in. If the hosts seem to know what they were talking about, that's because they do. Leah Piper is a Tantric sex master coach and a positive psychology facilitator. Dr. Willow Brown is both a Chinese and functional medicine doctor and a Taoist sexology teacher.

Don't forget your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

 

[00:25:55] Sphincter Muscles

 

Dr. Nancy: You're just into a hug. You're putting your hands on his face. His hands are on yours. He's doing an air kiss and even an angel hug, but it's beginning to touch in a Neutral way where you're connecting. Why? Because you've got to get into the body. And, women have trouble. So you wanna get her in, and you wanna be in yours, and it feels good. This is a wonderful way to come in too. 

 

[00:26:50] Why You Should Only Buy Anal Toys with a Flared Base 

 

Leah: I was gonna say we could probably use another book, HoneyB. About teenagers with a sex positive, permissive, parent that makes space for kids to feel their bodies. And navigate some of those waters that feel scary or that they're gonna get in trouble. Because I think that's really unexplored. There's a way to be a teenager, to have orgasms, and that doesn't necessarily mean penises and vagina's going inside of each other and creating babies. There's lots of orgasms, there's lots of ways to not get pregnant, and still have orgasms. And if kids knew about that, then they would start having that kind of sex.

Mary HoneyB: I like that, Leah. I like that a lot. That is something to do. I think that's an excellent idea. 

Willow: That'd be a great novel. 

We'll have you on the podcast again when you can tell us all about that book. We're really excited for you to write it. 

Mary HoneyB: I love it. And I don't mind writing it because it makes sense, right? It makes sense. And maybe the three of us write it together and we write different segments. 

Willow: Okay. I'll write a chapter or two. 

Mary HoneyB: Ok, we'll talk about it. Maybe we do it that way and then they have different perspectives. 

But I do like the part of encouraging young people, especially with, I'm not gonna go too heavy into politics, but I feel very strongly about Roe versus Wade and what's happening with that right now with women losing their ability to choose. And it doesn't matter if you're pro-choice or pro-life. I think we all have a right to feel how we feel. But what's not good is when the female doesn't have rights. 

Leah: Yeah, when we don't have rights over our own body, we should have full sovereignty over our reproductive rights. I stand with that. 

Willow: Absolutely. 

Mary HoneyB: So these types of books are going to be more and more necessary, like Pharrell. 

Willow: The sooner we really start talking about it with our kids, with the teenagers, is I think all these hormones raging through their bodies I mean, it's a real deep transformation. Talk about a metamorphosis that they go through, that we all went through, so we all can understand it. And some of us we're more blessed than others to have parents like honeyB. 

Mary HoneyB: No. I was the girl that snuck and did everything. My parents, I went to church every Sunday. I had the fellowship after church. Okay. 

Willow: You're recovering Christian or Catholic?. 

Mary HoneyB: I was like, oh my god. 

Willow: Me too. 

Leah: Well, I think that that points to something, perhaps another reason why you and others like you, modeling how to be in your own skin, in these conversations with your kids, because I think for a lot of people, they would like to be open. They would like to feel comfortable. They would prefer being the type of parent that their kids felt comfortable talking to them about these things, but they don't know how to create the space for it. They don't have a model in their mind. They haven't crossed that threshold in their own sexual awareness, and their own sexual development to have this natural confidence. There's an evolution in our bodies that many of us have to go through in order to find that opening. In order to be able to tolerate the discomfort enough to move in a different direction. And so to have someone write the words out. That they can try that on in their mind. And then they can even try it on in front of their mirror, or they can try it on talking to their girlfriends, or talking to some other trusted adult, as they move towards being more comfortable. Being a more sex positive parent role model, being more permissive about these conversations, we need someone who can model it, show us the way. 

Willow: Give us a language. And that's the value of reading like Mary HoneyB's books. Not only do you learn the language, but also, what Leah is saying, you start to imagine yourself using that language. And that's where it starts, with imagining the possibility of it.

Leah: Like putting it in your own skin. I can't be HoneyB, I can't be Willow, I can only be me, but I can be influenceable. I can allow myself to be influenced by other people's education, awareness, enlightenment, and I can allow that. If I can stay open to other people, then that creates its own authentic message once it's integrated in me.

 

[00:46:16] - HoneyB's Books are More than just Novels, they're How-to's.

 

Mary HoneyB: I like the step by steps too, kind of creating a how-to. In the sex scenes where if you haven't done it. You go, oh, okay, that's how it's done. Even in Sexcapade with the anal sex, the anal sex scene in chapter seven is so detailed.

Willow: What book is that Punany Paradise? Lemme get that book. Go straight to chapter seven. 

Mary HoneyB: Chapter seven. It's called Sexcapades. Yes. 

Leah: Okay, Sexcapades, write that down.

Mary HoneyB: It starts off with this amazing blowjob, right? It's an amazing blowjob, step by step. And one girl was like, oh yeah, I got my guy. I did everything you said in that chapter, and he just fell for it. And I was like, okay, good. 

But married couples, when I do signings, I'll be at Essence, they'll come together and they're like, you really enhanced our marriage because it gave us a different take. And my wife started reading this to me, like you were saying earlier, Leah, with the reading of it. And so now we've introduced our friends to it. So I'm like, it's good. 

Leah: This must be so rewarding. 

Willow: And I always have clients coming to me where I can get some good erotica? Where can I get some good readings? So now we've got a whole new HoneyB library to dip into. 

Leah: I mean, I feel like just a month ago before I knew about you HoneyB, I was asking the same question, I need some more erotica.

I don't know where to go. I'm missing out on something. And I'm looking in iBooks for a list of good erotica, and some of it I wasn't vibing with. But as you open this whole world for us, it's so cool because you're, you really are a sexuality educator through these stories. And it's really opened my mind to what's possible as an educator.

Leah: I'm coming at it from a different lens and a different doorway. But it's really inspiring, that there's a creative process that helps you tell a story and teach at the same time. It's those two worlds intersecting storytelling, and teaching, and helping other people digest something that they probably wouldn't be able to digest by coming to one of my classes.

But they can read one of your books. And integrate it differently. So exciting. 

Mary HoneyB: God, I love it. I do. And there's always a story in their erotica. So the HoneyB books, just for clarification, are straight erotica. I call it you're 50/50 and then the Mary B. Morrison book. They are all sexually explicit, but more of the storyline. But a lot of sex things, but more of the storyline. So they all have that element. 

The Rich Girls Club, okay, you have the Asian, the Latina, the black, the white, and they're all friends and they decide they're gonna take these guys down, right? I mean, take 'em down because California has never had a female governor and never had a black governor. And that was true when I wrote the book, right? it's like, where's everybody at? Where's everybody at? They still haven't had a I don't think a female governor in California. But another story, these women decide to take the guys down their opponents, one at a time. So they decide one girl is gonna run for governor, and then all the other girls are going to create sexual scandals with the other- 

Willow: Oh my god.

Mary HoneyB: -Other candidate sounds so good. Oh, they blackmail so good, they do. Oh, they get 'em in every kind of compromising, naked, whatever position with dildos. And it's like you will drop out of the race. This dildo is not exactly in the place where you want people to see this on tv. 

Leah: Okay. Who's ready to be a part of a book club?

Willow: Oh my God. 

Mary HoneyB: Because this is going down 

Willow: A Mary HoneyB book club, we're starting one. 

Leah: Yes. We're starting one. 

Mary HoneyB: We're so smart. We, as women, are so smart, aren't we ? 

Leah: Yes, we are. This is true. 

Willow: And the smartest men know that.

Mary HoneyB: Yes. Well, good. Yes, they do. 

Leah: Wow. Well, so fun. Thanks for hanging out with us and letting us into your mind, into the inner workings of your gorgeous mind and your art.

Mary HoneyB: Thank you. I've had so much fun. I've had so much fun. This is fun. Yeah, just sitting around talking, coming up with great ideas, telling stories. 

Leah: I'm inspired to go to the sex store and get some new toys. I'm getting the Rose. I'm gonna go to the bookstore and get some more books. I'm gonna get on the phone and have a book club.

Willow: So much is being birthed from this one interview. I love it.

 

[00:51:05] - HoneyB's Free Gift

 

Willow: And so, miss HoneyB, you have a gift that you want to offer all of our listeners, correct? 

Mary HoneyB: I do, I do. So, I've shared the link for Never Let a Man Come First, the book, because I really feel like every woman should read the book. Every woman should read. Wow. 

Leah: That's very generous. 

Mary HoneyB: Thank you. You Never Let a Man Come First and there's no mail bashing. Let me just clarify that. But I knew when I created the title that guys would shy away from it based on the title. But I tell you, when men pick up, Never Let a Man Come First and start to read it. They're like, oh my gosh. Did you see this? Bruh, come over here. You gotta read this. 

Willow: They love it. They want to. Oh, good. Oh, that's good. 

Mary HoneyB: They don't know, right, about us? So I wrote it for women and for young girls. 

I even mentioned the different types of STDs. And the different symptoms that go along with it. Because I know for a fact that sometimes young girls end up contracting something. They have no idea what it is. They're ashamed to even mention it, and they don't know what to. So I even addressed that in a book. So it's a lot of great information, but it's free. It's free. 

Willow: That's amazing. That's such a gift. Generous, really awesome, wonderful gift. And now we don't have to have any excuses to not dive into your artistry.

Leah: Thank you. 

Mary HoneyB: Thank you. 

Leah: That's really great. 

Mary HoneyB: Thank you. 

Leah: Well, you've been just a pure delight. Thank you so much for spending this time with us and giving us this generous book. Never Let a Man Come First, guys, you're gonna want to read this. 

Mary HoneyB: Oh, got a song. Got a song. 

Leah: Cause I know how much men like, they really want their partner to come. They really want to give them pleasure. That's tied into their pleasure. And sometimes they don't feel they have total control over their Ejaculation. And so being able to get some guidance and get some insight into what women need and how they can facilitate that, I'm sure the book will offer them insights.

 

[00:53:15] - The 3 Rings Every Woman Deserves 

  

Mary HoneyB: Yes. And I talk about the three rings in there too. A woman should get three rings. 

Leah: Oh, same more? 

Willow: Not just the two. 

Mary HoneyB: The relationship ring. The engagement ring and the wedding ring.

Willow: Okay. I love that. 

Mary HoneyB: It's really kinda interesting because if you tell a guy, and yes, I've done this before. If you tell a guy, if he wants to date you, it's like, well, I'm gonna need a relationship ring if I want to take myself off the market. 

Willow: Ah, I like that. I thought you were gonna talk about cock rings.

Leah: I thought so too. Oh, we're, there's a technique in there somewhere. 

Willow: Totally different. 

No, I was talking about 

Mary HoneyB: the real thing. 

Willow: I love that. I'll take that too. If we're gonna commit, if I'm gonna take myself off the market, I want a ring for it. I love that. Why not? Sure. 

Mary HoneyB: Yes, absolutely. Why not ask for it? But the other thing is that, even if he doesn't get it, if you ask for it, you get a glimpse into how he feels about you. If he goes, oh no, I'm not, no. Then that means, oh,I might need to reevaluate this. If he says, what's the relationship ring? I like that because then he's curious. He wants to know, and he wants to understand, and wants you to give him the information. He's still gonna say yes or no. My son is like, heck no. I'm not buying. But guys, I know some older guys that will go, oh, that's such a nice idea. I like that. I'm gonna do that. So we'll do it. 

Willow: I love that, and not only does it give you a glimpse into how excited they are to commit to you as well. But you are asking for this, and it's a vulnerable question, right? So it also empowers you as a woman to use your voice, and to get into the task, and learn how to be more forward with getting what you want outta life. 

Mary HoneyB: Yeah, or you could just print out the page from the PDF that you'll get when you get the link and download it and just put it in your hands.

Willow: There you go. If you need an easy way, circle it. 

Leah: Put some hints out there. Absolutely. 

Mary HoneyB: Draw a picture. 

Leah: See, it's endlessly creative. 

Willow: So much fun. Thank you so much for being with us today, it's just been such a pleasure and such an honor. 

Mary HoneyB: Thank you ladies.

 

[00:36:05] What is Deep Anal? 

 

Amy: But that's usually we're doing deep anal at that point. You know, that's when we've moved beyond just like a finger kind of barely doing anything. 

Leah: I was gonna say, how do you define deep anal? 

Amy: Deep anal is when my ass is relaxed and open up so much and I'm like, "I really want you to fuck me really hard in my ass."

Amy: Or some people for deep anal would be like a full hand or fist or something. But deep, deep anal is when you're so open and relaxed that there's almost like no limits at this point. 

Willow: Now how much time usually for you to get to that point of deep relaxation where you're at that point?

Amy: Oh, I mean, well from starting to finish from making Amy feel really special like all that stuff? 

Willow: From walking through the door. 

Amy: Walk through the door? Hours. But every day is different. Like some days our sexual engagement is kissing and touching and my partner loves pussy massage, so I'll get a pussy massage for a good 20 to 30 minutes, and then maybe we move to penetrative vaginal sex or something like that. Then I often am the one who will be like, "I want your finger on my ass." And then "I want your finger in my ass." Or sometimes he will say something about it, you know. 

Amy: And I also like anal threats too, whether I want it or not. It doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

Willow: Tease. 

Amy: I like my partners, "if you're a bad girl, I'm gonna fuck you in the ass." That's right. But deep down, he knows that only I get to decide that. Sometimes like, from the moment the fingers warming it up to deep anal could be like four minutes. But most of the time it's something like, I don't know, 10 to 15 minutes, to hit that point, starting just from the finger on the outside. 

Willow: Yes, and so now you're hearing this from a very experienced practitioner of anal sex. 

Willow: So if you are just starting out, give yourself even more time, even more cushion, like give yourself 30 minutes. And then you're not coming up against a broken expectation that you should be able to do something faster or please your partner or performance in some way. This really is not about any of that. It's about sensing and feeling into what feels good for you. And opening up new sensations in your body that you maybe have never felt before.

 

[00:55:38] - The Dish 

 

SxR Announcer: Now our favorite part. The dish.

Leah: Okay, welcome back, Sex Reimagined. We just wrapped up with the beautiful Mary HoneyB Morrison. 

Willow: Oh my God. She was so fun and so inspirational. Love her commitment to being an artist first. Just really inspiring on so many levels, because artistry comes in all forms, and this woman is an author, and a really profound one at that. Leah and I both cannot wait to dive into her collection. 

Leah: Yeah, I know, I'm in a series right now, I'm just so ready for it to be over with, so I can dive into her work and have some lovely private moments with my vibrator.

Willow: Yeah. 

Leah: Like I'm really into that, looking forward to it. 

Willow: Oh yeah. She'll inspire that. I'm sure. 

Leah: Interesting though, I mean, we had just interviewed On and so I was still reeling in what was opening for me around that. So in the beginning of the interview, I kind of had this clutch moment, because I was describing a part of this whole dirty little slut thing. The fantasy thing that I'm grappling with of wanting to explore the deepest part of that in conjunction with my fear, when I was coming of age, as compared to my whole, healed, adult self wanting to now claim it. And be treated like a nasty little slut by someone I can really trust.

And I felt like there wasn't enough context around all of that. So I feel like there was, sort of, a gulp moment. Because later in the interview, I could be making this up. But this is just a moment for us just to decompress on what we experienced. And so I just want the audience to know there are gonna be moments in this where you're gonna see very clearly my insecurities. You're gonna see what triggers me, what opens me, what opens Willow, what triggers Willow. And I hope brings us all in, that there's space for all of this, in all of us. 

And so I did have a moment of just going, gulp, because I could feel the incongruence, I think between her messaging and that comment of mine. 

And I couldn't be making up just a totally big story, but this is just me processing the fucking interview. I have held sex and sexuality from that place too, of just only total empowerment. And I felt like there was a departure from an understanding that what I was also saying, about this whole sacred slut piece, is also coming from a place of total empowerment.

It just doesn't look like the same messaging anymore. Right. You know, and so I felt there was a misconnection there. And I wasn't sure how to totally recover from that. So I noticed there was a little bit in there. 

Willow: Was this early on in the interview? I don't even know what you're talking about.

Leah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was early, early, early on in the interview. 

Willow: Okay. I had, it was not in my consciousness at all. 

Leah: Well I'm sure it's only in my head. 

Willow: One of the things she said that made us both pause was, I love how she claimed it though. She was like, I know this isn't gonna sound this isn't gonna, it's not a popular idea. Well then no baby dolls thing. But also she's like, I'm all for having an affair. I think it's great. Have an affair. Do you remember her? And we both were like, hmmmmmm? Okay. 

Leah: The no, we shouldn't have Baby dolls was a gulp moment. 

Willow: The baby dolls was a big one. 

Leah: I'm not sure I totally agree with that. 

Willow: So many good little controversial moments, I would say, for us, in this interview, which I loved. 

Leah: And I love that she brought it up. I mean, I love, I love someone who's gutsy and stands for what they believe. 

Willow: And unapologetic. And she's bold, and she's strong, and she's powerful, and she's wise, but not in a pushy way at all. Just really standing in sovereignty and really a cool woman. 

Leah: Yeah, well said. Totally in her sovereignty and I and made me pause, really had me consider, no baby dolls, eh? 

Willow: No, I loved my baby doll, I still have a picture of the baby doll. I was never into Barbie's though. 

Leah: If it wasn't a doll, what about stuffed teddy bears, and zebras, and what about other things? Because I think that it's natural for us to want to care for something. And I think that's a natural human thing to nurture. And I don't think it's a boy / girl thing either. Or just a girl thing. It's not a gender thing. And I also think there are plenty of boys who want baby dolls too. I think we just allow our child to be their unique selves, and stand back, and let them be drawn to what they're drawn to.

And maybe not try to inform what they're drawn to. And allow that to develop naturally. But an interesting point. 

And then the thing about the affairs, I love that she's just that feminist. It was cool too, this interview had so many different pieces within it. 

Willow: And I loved how we took a turn toward how to talk to your teenagers about sexuality, from a mother's perspective. Who is sexually sovereign. Somebody who is very comfortable and she shared so much with us around her experience of that. And being the mom that the whole basketball team came to for advice around sexuality. And just being a staple in her community for those young boys. What an amazing gift it probably was to each and every one of those boys and the women that they're with now, or men that they're with now. 

Leah: Yeah, totally. And I think there's a vivaciousness and an embracing confidence that it seems she came into this world with. You gotta pause and think about the shy girl, who's not always talking about everything, but actually knows a lot. I could just see her, growing up in high school and... 

Willow: ...just being the quiet one in the corner who actually has it figured out. Okay, I got this, yeah, not figured it out, I'm figuring it out. 

Leah: I want to be in her crew for sure. 

Willow: And just all the imagination that she carries in order to develop these characters who are very, very real for her. And just having a mind that can pull from every piece and aspect of life to create these characters, to create these stories.

Writing any book is hard as hell, but writing fictional books? I mean, my brain can not go there. I tried, but it didn't work. 

Leah: I mean, that story was so great. How all these women from all these backgrounds are getting together and taking over government. 

Willow: Yes, one of her books. 

Leah: And using all these sexual scandals to blackmail them.

Willow: Love it. I mean, just so creative. I cannot wait to dive into her library. She's got the HoneyB series and then she's got the Mary Morrison series or something. 

Leah: Something like that. 

Willow: All kind of categorized, which I love all that kinda stuff. 

Leah: So definitely, let's have an Instagram thread about who's gonna be in the book club? Because I think we need to really dive into this.

Willow: I think her work is gonna be very expansive for anyone who reads it. 

Leah: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. This will probably open up a lot of doors to a lot of other writers that we haven't been exposed to yet. I would really like to get into this whole new genre. There are a lot of other things that I thought she said were also interesting and probably controversial.

I love that she named being a teenager and dating older men. 

Willow: She was like, I went for the older boys. 

Leah: Yeah, I had that experience too. I grew up in a college town. I was all about the college boys and pretending I was older than I was. And no, I don't feel like I was taking advantage of, or raped, or statutory rape, or any of that shit. So don't go victim whistling on my ass. We were just fine. It was a choice. It was a shit ton of fun. And I would do it all over again. Over and over and over again. 

Willow: I'm sure you would to go back and do all 

Leah: Yes, in fact but I'm sure I can figure out a way to play that out now. So I like that she stood for that because I think sometimes we victimize our teenagers to the point of yes, that's true for some, but it's not true for all. We are not this blanket black and white society that has to say this is a thousand percent wrong and a thousand percent right. It's all individual, 

Willow: Especially coming of age, and coming from childhood, through teens into adulthood, there are so many factors at play.

We've got hormonal, we've got peer pressure factors, we've got maturity factors, maturity now, social media factors. And there's so much to discover and explore and find out who you are. If you can really hold a container for your teens and let them know that no matter what they're discovering, or no matter what they're trying on that week, as far as their persona goes, is that you love them unconditionally and that you're gonna be there for them no matter what.

That gives them an anchor that gives them a place to come home to when they feel lost, or confused, or in the dark. So I love that we took that turn with her conversation. That was great. 

Leah: Yeah, because I think conversations these days are mostly centered around how teenagers might be getting exploited by adults. And that is certainly true. And I don't mean to diminish that, by also highlighting that not every teenager is necessarily being exploited, just because they're having an experience with someone who's a little bit older. So whatever that's worth. Don't come after me. We're not talking about the same thing. Exploitation versus experimentation. 

And then I think her piece is also really valid around the abortion piece. She said she's had a child, she's had a miscarriage, she's had an abortion. Yep. She's someone who stands in experience.

Willow: Yep, she's been through it all. 

Leah: And I stand with her in believing that our reproductive rights should be protected. And so I really felt aligned with her on that. I loved her. She has her own journey and experience and she's had a lot of experience, to know who she is and to know the complex pain of all three experiences.

Very unique, and special, creative woman. You can tell how far she has come since her shy days to where she's at now. I mean, come on. You can never tell. In fact, Leah, you said during the interview you, I can imagine you as this just really vivacious, sexy young girl, in your high school days. And she was like, oh, it's the opposite actually. 

Leah: Yeah, I know. I was like, oh my God, you just continue to surprise me, HoneyB. 

Willow: Yeah, she was a pleasure. 

Leah: Yeah, so the book club, who's in? 

Willow: I'm in. Let us know in the Sex Reimagined Instagram account, if you want to read one of HoneyB's books with us and have a convo about it? 

Leah: And I bet that we can get her to be a guest speaker at the end of our book club and maybe do Q and A with her? 

Willow: Oh, that'd be so fun. 

Leah: Okay. Yeah. Cool. All right, well, love, love! 

SxR Announcer: Love. Thanks for tuning in. If the hosts seem to know what they were talking about, that's because they do. Leah Piper is a Tantric sex master coach and a positive psychology facilitator. Dr. Willow Brown is both a Chinese and functional medicine doctor and a Taoist sexology teacher.

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