What is Sexual Enlightenment?
Willow: Up next we have for you Dr. Elsbeth Meuth and Freddy Zental Weaver, who have assisted thousands of couples and singles in creating lasting intimacy and fulfillment in their life and their relationships. They've been featured on Showtime, they've been featured on NBC, they've been featured all over the world.
Willow: These two are really a power couple in the Tantra industry, and they're so much fun for us to tune in with and to have deep conversations with. They've coached billionaires, innovators, and power couples all over the world and share their intimacy secrets at a global Y.P.O. Conference in the City of Love, which is Paris.
We got to talk about sexual enlightenment with them, and you're gonna love this episode.
Leah: So drop in, turn on, and fall in love with Freddy and Elsbeth.
Announcer: Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.
Willow: All right. We are so blessed and excited to be here again with Freddy and Elsbeth.
Willow: We just love these two, and we're diving in today with sexual enlightenment. So, I mean, what the heck is it? There are so many aspects of it, right, that come into play. And, why don't you guys start by telling us what's the definition of it in your opinion?
Freddy: Yeah, well, I'll start off.
Freddy: This is Freddy Zental. I will say that sex has been creating life before we had language. When we bring consciousness to the sexual, the kernel of that energy, creativity, and pleasure starts showing up in areas of life that seem completely unrelated to sex, in the simple process of living. So as opposed to, I hate my job, 30 more years before retirement. When we bring consciousness to the vibration and the frequency that thought and conversation creates, we're listening differently.
Freddy: That dog doesn't hunt anymore. So we start coming from a different place of listening to the vibration of creativity and pleasure, as a default way of listening in our language, observations, conversations, and life. So that's intelligence. And there are ways to tap into it. Anybody in a body who's willing can get it.
[00:02:24] THE BEAUTY OF BEING HUMAN, IS THE CONSCIOUS MIND
Elsbeth: The beauty of the human being is that we have a conscious mind. In many ways, we are just like animals. We have this nervous system, just like animals that is very habitual to some extent. Fortunately, to some extent, we of course, get locked into certain ways of being that may limit what we are actually able to experience.
Elsbeth: So by tapping consciously into our life force energy that is sexual in nature, we can be fueled by that energy, and that is a key difference. While in the primal self, we are like animals and it's wonderful. And just like, when you think of it, the way we have intercourse is just like animals have intercourse.
Elsbeth: When they are in heat they hump each other with the same movement in the pelvis as we do. Nobody in their teens gets taught how to move their pelvis in intercourse or even in self-pleasuring. The pelvis may start moving. So this is what I mean by habituality that's spilled into the nervous system that is not taught.
Elsbeth: Then, unlike the animals, the human being has this conscious mind. Which means that we have the capacity to self-reflect. So we are not just at the effect of that life force energy that may have us horny or not horny or whatever. We can bring awareness to that wonderful life-giving energy and learn to guide it, to channel it from our sexual center into our heart center, into our spiritual center, and all over. And we can create with this energy, not just biologically like new life, but also we can create ourselves, our love, and our dreams.
[00:04:27] SEXUAL ENLIGHTENMENT VS SPIRITUAL ENLIGHTENMENT
Leah: So this is building on a thread. I think what you just said is probably gonna build on the answer to this next question because we have a lot out there about spiritual enlightenment,
Leah: right? With lots of different traditions all over the world. How is sexual enlightenment different from spiritual enlightenment?
Freddy: Okay. I think they're synonymous. But here's my feeling of having taught this to people and in my own life for 21 years and being in it since I was 13 and I'm 66 now.
Freddy: So this is the thing, we're these big brain thinking, homo sapiens, figuring out the universe forever. Our minds don't stop. We have stories. We are this clay, this, carbon clay that remembers from the past into the now, into the future. And what connects us to this elegant design of the universe that goes on forever is our imagination.
Freddy: To see or imagine something that's never been before in our lives, in relationships and working whatever. So in the sexual enlightenment piece, when we are in this state, this divine, altered state of consciousness that happens, chemically we're changed. More endorphins, serotonin, oxytocin, the feel-good hormones, the emotionally more connected, intimate, loving, and vulnerable, aligned with some of the distinctions of breath awareness, energetic awareness, and intention. Using it and using the sexually altered state as a meditation, in addition to all the other things, but learning these distinctions as a meditation, we get more unmasked to this possibility that we see. To then work with the clay that we are, and the stories and the neuro-synaptic memory that keeps us in a place to then move with ease, grace, and flow towards what we most deeply desire.
Freddy: And that's the nuts and bolts, if you excuse the pun, the nuts, and bolts of working with life force and sexual energy. And as they say, anybody in a body can get it. It's like, and this is remembering what we've forgotten.
Freddy: When we were in the womb, and it was womb service, it was just totally, absolutely wonderful, just floating in the embryonic fluid.
Freddy: We were just present, and our brains had developed, and all of a sudden we're born, boom, bright lights, smacked on the bottom. Some guys are getting the wee wee cut. I mean, can you send me back? And then this whole life happens and unfolds, and we learn how to navigate, and we create stories about how to exist and survive through it.
Freddy: And then we get to a certain point where we want to do something that we've never done before. And this is where sexual intelligence comes in, where we can use that altered state to get out of our own story-making that we do to move into a new story.
Leah: I love that. That's beautiful. If you got a body, what? What was the saying? Anybody?
Freddy: Anybody in a body can get it.
Leah: Anybody in a body can get it. I want that bumper sticker. That is so good.
Freddy: It's great, it's a song. I think it's definitely a hook. It's a lyric.
[00:07:18] DO YOU NEED A LOVER TO ATTAIN SEXUAL ENLIGHTENMENT?
Leah: Yeah. That's a good one. So what about if you are single? Tell me a little bit about how we play with the actualization of sexual enlightenment in a partnership or out of the partnership.
Elsbeth: You know, Leah, it's curious that it actually starts within. I cannot experience sexual enlightenment with a beloved, or partner when I am not already connected in that way within myself because it's never given by another. It's the misconception we grow up with that I can only fully love when I'm with another. I can only be fulfilled by another.
Elsbeth: And so in maturing in life, if we wanna engage in that, it's all within already. We may have forgotten about it. So the sexual enlightenment dimension that is so unfamiliar to the West or perhaps to the global human community... I mean, even in the east, oftentimes, it is no longer practiced even though it comes from there. But it's forgotten.
Elsbeth: And so, this dimension of becoming aware of our sexual energy, really needs us to be conscious. Because I can make a baby not being conscious, it's built into us. So bringing conscious awareness to this, and integrating it with my heart, and my mind, my spirit, allows that flow to occur. That has been there originally, but we may have compartmentalized these different dimensions of energy.
Elsbeth: And so in the reintegration, we come to wholeness. As you know, there is a solo practice, we call it a self-love practice. Where I can channel my wonderful, alive, creative, pleasurable energy up from my yoni center, which is the sexual center of the woman, up into my heart, my heart can open; Freddy calls this a "heartgasm". And then I can also guide it all the way into my third eye, including then channeling it into my projects.
[00:09:52] USING SEXUAL ENERGY CREATIVELY
Elsbeth: Like the book. I remember when we wrote the book, it was a few years ago, it's now out on audio as well. But when we wrote it, I had this writer's block. I felt like I had nothing to say. I mean, who was interested in what I had to say anyway?
Elsbeth: That is when I actually just said, okay, Elsbeth, shift it. Do self-love practice. Recalibrate. Connect your life force energy with your heart energy with your mental energy, and that got the flow going. And then a conversation usually after that with Freddy really helped. Because he comes from such different places than I. And... oh yeah, I hadn't thought about that. You know?
Willow: Yeah, it really grounds it.
Elsbeth: Yeah. And Willow, the grounding and the flow. Because stuckness always has to do with the constriction of energy in the mind, anyway.
Willow: So, I always think of human beings as made up of four things. We've got our physical, spiritual, our emotional, and our psychological. Right?
Freddy: Yeah.
Willow: And so what you're talking about is really integrating all of that inside of yourself and running sexual energy through your own physical channels and meridians to access this higher consciousness. So that you have more presence for your own self-love practice, self-pleasuring practice. You then have such a defined pathway where this energy flows in your body where you can easily share with another. It's like your cup of runneth over, and then you're spreading it, and you're sharing it with another.
Willow: And another thing that I love that you said, Elsbeth, is when you get a little bit off. You get writer's block, or something's not right with my relationship, or something's just off in my life. And you come back to that self-love practice, to the inner beloved, and you reconnect to that self-pleasure inside. It shifts everything and lets the energy flow again.
[00:12:05] SEXUAL ENERGY CAN LEAD TO PROFOUNDLY ALTERED STATES
Freddy: Yeah. I wanna add too, that sometimes people get lost while they are looking for some kind of woo-woo or something. And it's like, the chemical shifts and the altered state of consciousness that happens in the sexual allows us to tap into something that's always available to us, which is that watcher, that witness aspect of our connection to this consciousness that we are, beyond this clay.
Freddy: It's that altered state that happens in the sexual that allows us some freedom from the clay that we are. The neuro in the story and all the stuff that we think is real, and yet it's all real. Yet also this consciousness is real. Our dreams are real. We're dreaming this whole thing up.
Elsbeth: And how much do we love this moment of orgasm, climax, ejaculatory moment, this height in feeling? Because the mind is shut off for a moment. We cannot think and be in that high pleasure state at the same time. It's so freeing; it's relieving, it's you know - wow - like that. And how would it be to actually have ways of bringing this into my being and into my life within, and then with my beloved? Every so often or quite often.
Willow: Yeah, quite often. Let's bring it in quite often.
Leah: There's something that I really love that everyone is bridging here because one is we can get stuck and in our own way. And so what I hear from you Elsbeth is these moments of imposter syndrome. Why would anyone care about what I have to say, and then being able to suspend that for a minute and go, what do I need to get out of my own way? So I can get back to that natural stream of God-consciousness that is in me, that is in you, that is in all of us that can tap into this thing that's been here the whole time. And we all actually share that in common.
Leah: We all have access to that. It brings me back to this idea of the God that's looking out my eyes is actually the same consciousness that's looking out of your eyes, and your eyes, and your eyes. And so, it's being able to go in and trust in that. And when our ego is like, but why me and self-doubt and all of these things to just go, there's gotta be a way out of that touch of suffering, right? That doubts ourselves, that isn't totally sure of ourselves. And I love that there's a sexual practice and a way to love ourselves back to this state where we get relief. Like, that's back to that orgasmic moment where we get respite from this busy thinking, worrying, distracted mind.
Leah: And we get to suspend. And it's not a passing out; it's a passing in.
Willow: It's blissful.
Leah: And then the genius can really flow.
[00:14:56] THE PROCESS OF WRITING THEIR BOOK, SEXUAL ENLIGHTENMENT
Leah: And the thing that I think, what a gift, is to be able to come back to a writing project with your partner, and share the creative process with someone who has their own voice and also is connected to that consciousness within them. Where that, where the two get to play together.
Leah: So when you were in the process of writing this book, Did you sit down together and write it? Did you say, okay, you do this part, I'll do this part. Did you both contribute to the same chapter? Did you divide and conquer chapters? Describe to us the process, the actual process of writing a book, which to me seems so daunting.
Elsbeth: Oh, this is where really our differences came beautifully into co-play. So Freddy, as you can already, by the way, he speaks his imagination, he's like a free bird. He thinks about this one moment and something totally different the next moment. When I think, okay, how am I gonna orient myself right now?
Elsbeth: I'm much more linear in my thinking, very organized. And so we usually had meetings together more to develop the ideas, or what we wanna cover in the next chapter or the whole outline of the book. We also worked with a ghostwriter, but we really had to supply everything.
Freddy: Yeah. Because our writing was pretty academic.
Freddy: It just came out that way. So the ghostwriter really helped make it a story, really turned it into an interesting story.
Elsbeth: But the ghostwriter doesn't supply anything. It's just supporting the process and then getting it on.
Willow: Yeah. The creative process. Yeah.
Elsbeth: So we sat down and we talked about it, I took notes, and then I pulled it together. And I'm used to it; I have a doctorate, and there's a lot of writing. So it was not a big deal for me once I was connected to it.
Freddy: Just another dissertation for her.
Leah: Okay.
Elsbeth: Connected with what was the oomph, what was the spirit, what was the energy, you know?
Elsbeth: And at times, I was just so in my head then about it. It was not flowing. And that conversation, talking about flow, the sexual flow, the energy. And I call sexual energy the life force; it's not just having sex. Because our mind, the western mind, it's so single-minded and focused on sex.
Elsbeth: Like no, this is an energy of flow, of being alive. And so Freddy brought a lot of aliveness to me because he then just went into, what's the essence of it? And it's not that he asks the question, what is the essence? He just blurts it out. Sometimes, I'm like, wow, how could I forget about it? And I think it has a lot to do with the way he grew up.
Elsbeth He was brought up in a very open, sexual household and learned Tantra early. It was always about flow and not regulations. Wouldn't you say?
Freddy: Absolutely. Doing this work as a profession for the last 21 years has really brought my authentic self out. I was like this fraud in corporate America.
Freddy: This kid was raised with a hippie psychiatrist dad with sex parties and traveling all over the world. And existential conversations living on the houseboat next to Alan Watt, who was our friend. Fred, my father, used to do workshops together. I mean, this kind of was my early.
Freddy: And then in corporate America with folks who hadn't left Kansas. We were making money and doing our thing in the corporate world. But I always felt like a fraud. Like there was something more for me to be doing in this life. So in doing this work, I've been able to do my singing.
Freddy: I think I mentioned it there before we got on the air. And that's a creative self-discovery in music and movement and art. When I'm in my music and singing in front of an audience, there's a place that I can tap into, and I'm getting more and more consistent with it. That is complete flow and its complete connection. It's like that quantum connection that you were talking about earlier in terms of, I'm you, and you're me. I am you, you're me; chemically, we're all the earth; atomically, we're the universe. It's all connected. And science is sharing that more and more, and people are going to see that our thoughts are as powerful as anything.
Freddy: We're creating this whole thing. If you say, peace is only a thought away. When you think about it, yeah, it makes sense. But yet, we haven't made the quantum spiritual leap to creating it. And once we start getting the connection of science and our thought, we will create this utopia, and things will just start coming like boom.
Freddy: It's like I have sababa, you know, just like here it is, boop. You know?
Elsbeth: Yeah. But also, this is what this whole sexual enlightenment is about, that it's not just somewhere in the future, the state of peace. How can we, person by person, couple by couple, cultivate that now, you know? And that is what we want to connect with our beautiful life-giving energy.
Elsbeth: It's already here. We are not producing that energy. Connect with your energy, compassion energy. Connect with that wonderful, amazing mind because when we focus on the mind, there's nothing that we can't do. It's not the chatter-mind that creates and is supported by life energy. It's the focused, intentional mind and then connecting with that, what you call, the God connection. With the conscious connection. Where we are the universe, and the universe is us.
Elsbeth: Of course, we want to cultivate that because we don't learn that in grade school. But that is where, for me, peace on earth is actually cultivated now. And I think by being in that vibration of flow, I will affect my environment and the people around me.
Elsbeth: I don't even have to open my mouth. I will be in a different way with my beloved instead of complaining about what he doesn't do. I live in appreciation of what contribution he is to my life every day. That is where I bring my focus to my awareness. And so, yeah.
Leah: I love what you're pointing out because I think when people think of enlightenment, they believe it's something outside themselves that they have to become somehow. And what you are saying is that it's already inside.
The cultivation part of it is remembering that it's inside. Remembering that you have access to it.
Freddy: Remembering, that's it.
Leah: Yeah. Bringing it back to the present state and being compassionate when you lose it, and knowing where to find it inside of yourself. And so there's this part of our sexual nature that is creative in nature, that is about the creative process. And that we don't have to only be in the heart to find enlightenment. Or only be in a specific part of our enlightened mind to be an enlightenment. It's really that we can embody enlightenment, and we must actually go a little further down. And not see sex as only this thing we see in movies or this thing we do to make babies. But that there's sex inside of us, where yin and yang merge, where that place of creation is magic. And we are the magic. We don't have to wait to die to have it. We can have it right here. Love it.
Willow: That's right. And Freddy, what you were speaking to when you get in front of an audience and you're singing, and you're in that flow state. I mean, that's essence pouring through you at that moment. This essence really is the foundation for each one of us individually, which creates our experience of enlightenment through the vehicle of sexuality. So...
Freddy: Yes, yes.
[00:23:17] YOU NEED A VISION FOR YOUR CORE DESIRE TO BECOME A REALITY
Willow: ...I'm curious; we've got all kinds of listeners, we've got people who've been on the path for a while, and these things can take years sometimes, or sometimes months. It can go quicker. It can go slow. And so if somebody's, let's say, been in a marriage since they were in their early twenties, they're a totally different person now. They've had three or four kids, and they're still in this marriage, but they're not connecting spiritually with their partner. They're not connecting spiritually with themselves, and they definitely aren't connecting sexually. Where's a starting point for them? Where's a jumping-off point for them?
Freddy: I'll start the conversation by saying that if you have a vision of what you want to create, these practices can help you get out of your way to allow it in. If you have an idea committed to that you want to create in the relationship, then you can move towards it.
Elsbeth: So let's go to that couple that you described.
Willow: So intention then, yeah. That is what you're saying.
Elsbeth: Core intention is desire. We only formulated intention through desire. It could be a physical desire; it could be an emotional desire; it could be like a constructive or architectural desire, like certain forms. So...
Leah: ...so are you saying Elsbeth that before you can really connect to the intention, you have to first have a desire to wanna correct what is missing, or if we're talking about this couple, someone's gotta have the desire to come and be closer to wanna find that within themselves or within the partnership?
Freddy: Yeah. That elevated emotion.
Leah: Okay.
And then the next question, just to go off of Leah's question, is, do they both need to have the desire or just one? Lots of questions here.
Elsbeth: So am I just so used to my situation that nothing else even is on my horizon?
Freddy: Resigned.
Elsbeth: Yeah, or even not being in touch. That is just how we have lived. This is how we continue to live. So there is very little opening then for anything new. Most couples are not there. There's usually at least one who would like to create something new. I mean, we have couples come over and over again in that very state that you described.
Freddy: Just at a workshop this weekend, this stuff came up. Same stuff.
Elsbeth: And so, we start out every workshop where people get to articulate their intention. This is in itself a process because the clearer I'm connected with my intention, which is fueled by my desire, the more I can live into a future and feel the future being now. Even when it hasn't happened yet.
Freddy: It's been said, Clear intention, elevated emotion, changes matter, physical matter. So clear intention.
Leah: Say that again, Freddy.
Freddy: Clear intention with an elevated emotion, changes matter, physical matter.
Leah: How do we elevate our emotions?
Elsbeth: Yeah. Because if I want something like, I'm in a relationship, as you described. I'm the woman, and I think, oh, I really would like to have, I would really like to have wild sex with my husband. It's totally gone. I feel just tired, and I feel so disconnected.
Elsbeth: But there is a spark. Yeah. Now, if this woman says, if I were to say, oh, I really want this, but I know I never can have it.
Elsbeth: That includes an emotion of resignation, of no possibility.
Freddy: Resistance.
Elsbeth: And then it's not going to happen.
Elsbeth: I'm going to open myself up to the capability and then feel it from a place of joy. I'm looking into this corner because I see it already coming, and I feel it.
Elsbeth: Now, these practices so that I can feel it, we need to develop, particularly in a relationship where there was such a disconnect for so long. So back to your question Willow, when is it enough? There needs to be one who feels the wish, the desire so that I can then bring the desire to my partner and say, you know, I really would love to be more connected with you. I feel the kids are gone now. Are you open to that?
Freddy: Yeah.
Elsbeth: Look at that. That was easy.
Leah: That looked easy!
Willow: For you guys!
Leah: Yeah.
Freddy: This is the thing about it. I want to say that there are a lot of ways to get actionable insights. Couples can do therapy, and Thank you, doctor, for helping me see this ...and da da.
Freddy: But how do we actually shift it at the moment, in the real world? And so that's where these practices are so highly important because we are this clay, this physical vibration. And so really tapping into an idea, and then the resistance energetically, emotionally, and vibrationally to that idea. It's like we keep fighting; we're our own worst enemy. I say if we want something but then believe that it's not really possible or can't happen.
Freddy: So, really getting all of that clear. and that's where these practices become really powerful.
Willow: Yeah, so finding congruence between the one inside that's like, I want that thing, and the one inside whose like, but I'm not worthy. I can't have that thing; I can't make that a reality. Three options Willow. One is the option that just happened between Freddy and me, where one brings it up, and the other says, yeah, I've thought about that myself. Yes, what could we do? That's the first option.
Elsbeth: The second option is that I come to Freddy, and he's a total no. But what? No, I'm so busy with my work. This is not where I have my focus. Or, she may not even dare to bring it up because she already anticipates the no.
Elsbeth: The third option is that one feels the spark, brings it to the other, and the other may be reluctant or not. What's essential, then, is to keep going, not to give up, and to listen.
Elsbeth: What may be enticing, what may be of interest to him, from my role, you know? What keeps him up at night? How does he like to feel, given that I may have lived with him for 20 years? I know him pretty well. So I can, I could lead him to the well. Gently, step by step.
One thing I see a lot is the one who has the desire will bring it to the other, and the other will feel like, what, I'm not good enough? They'll start to go into that defensiveness, yeah, defensiveness and ego and, just a lot of, their own pain. They'll just go into their own emotional pain. Oh, the sex we have isn't good enough for you? Or the spiritual connection that we have isn't satisfying you? That must mean that you don't love me.
Willow: And so they just go into this whole story. And then there's that fear, and then the one who has the desire is like, shit, I don't even want to bring it up because I don't want to start a whole churn cycle.
Freddy: The people have to be willing; they have to be willing.
Elsbeth: So yes, but really, I want to go back to that, listen to the desire within and hold it in your heart. Do not give up on it. You need to believe it. If I don't believe it, I cannot bring it to another. And what I said earlier with the elevated emotion, now that is some practice.
Elsbeth: I'm not saying from one day to another. That is going back to learning all of that sexual enlightenment is a gestalt that we live in, that we experience. I have been practicing it for the last 21 years 22 years—Freddy for what... since he was 13.
Willow: A lifetime.
Freddy: But you know, it's moment by moment. I'm never, you're never like, okay, I'm done. I don't have to do that meditation anymore; I'm done. I've seen the enlightenment; I'm light now. No. It's like, I'm the clay; we're all the clay. Ya know, I was going to say that, you know, it's stillness.
Freddy: That people who are stuck in some kind of ego loop with their partner in their life. Okay. Got it. And then you do something like, we teach particular bodywork practices for people, for couples particularly, where they're just asked to be in the experience of that. And in parasympathetic breathing, because that gives them a little space from the chacha upstairs. Right?
Freddy: And then they start to get a familiarity and some accessibility to that stillness. And I make it clear that it's in that still place. There is space than in that nothingness to create the possibility. And that circumvents the ego and the story making and all of that stuff. And then people, most people even with low EQ, get that because that is, if it's anywhere, it's everywhere, in terms of this stillness and this being accessible to people beyond this thinking mind and the story stuff. Yeah.
Leah: Yeah. I can't remember which one of you said it, but you used the word willing. Two people have to be at least willing enough to get curious.
Freddy: Yes.
Leah: And our judgments are gonna arise, right? Our fears are gonna arise; our defensiveness is gonna arise. We can probably expect those things to be encountered. As we feel these vulnerable parts of ourselves that aren't sure about being good enough or whatever the storyline is. And so there's an invitation of what I wanna invite the audience to tap into is a willingness to be malleable, to be influenceable, to be curious. If we can be practicing in our partnership, am I willing to be influenced right now? My partner is sharing a desire. This isn't about me feeling obligated. This isn't even about me agreeing or not agreeing. It's can I come into my heart and be that place that can witness my love's desire. And let that stillness just be there for a moment without having to do anything. Your desire is important, and that doesn't mean I have to fulfill it. Can I just be with you in it?
Leah: And I think it's from learning how to build that space within ourselves that opens up these other doors, these desire doors, right? It's like, we crack the door open here, look inside, feel into it, and practice curiosity with each other. When we're noticing judgment, and then that opens up another door to desire, and what's in there? Ooh, I never thought I'd think of that one; let's go in a little further.
Leah: It's like you can start to just play in the stillness.
Freddy: And when you think about where the sexual energy leads you to, that nothingness, in those three seconds of the orgasmic space.
Freddy: Yeah. And that's intelligence, and that's what we can learn to draw on as a guide back to ourselves. Back to that stillness, to then move into the dream of dreaming our lives the way we want 'em. Outta this way that we are, that's the intelligence of working out of sexual energy.
Leah: You know what this is, what I'm feeling in my body right now, by just being a part of this conversation and hearing the two of you speak is like, all of a sudden, I feel more relaxed, my belly isn't as tight, and my heart feels a little more open. And whatever this thing that we're carrying, this intensity, or this pressure, we have pressure to do all this stuff, right?
Leah: It's like suddenly I feel more creative, my body feels more open, I feel more relaxed. I'm feeling the tension shift, and we don't even have to do anything. It's just being a part of a conversation. A sense of hope is arising in my being right now, and also not having to take all of this so seriously.
Leah: I think we get so scared in our partnership; we don't want to lose each other. And we believe it could be better, and what's wrong with us? And these little fears... we may not even know the thoughts. It's just this feeling of, am I doing it right, and am I going to lose something? When you just get to be in this conversation, you just get to let go.
Elsbeth: It's great that you brought this up.
Willow: Yeah, it's about receiving. Receiving your partner and where they're at, and just being present to what they are trying to express. And it's very vulnerable; it's a hard thing to express. I find it so interesting that it can be so much harder to be vulnerable with somebody that you've been with for 20 years than it is to be with a brand new person.
Leah: So true.
Willow: You've always been this certain way with them, and all of a sudden, you're like, wait, I'm not really that way. I have some authentic truth that wants to come out. I'm not who I was when we got married. And so now, this other authentic piece of me, I don't know what it is, but I want to explore it. I want to explore it with you, but I'm not even sure how to discuss it. And it's like that can be even harder to be vulnerable with that type of relationship.
Freddy: Yeah. We have gone through a lot of maturations in our 21 years together.
Elsbeth: So I just want to say, because of such a crucial moment right now, what just came up in the conversation. With the invitation that feel may arise and feel always has to do with, I cannot do it the way she may want it, or he may want it, or going into I'm not good enough, or the whole performance thing.
Elsbeth: And so much of the sexual awareness in our culture, which is totally focused on performance. And what happened just a moment earlier, Leah, when you said, oh, I feel more relaxed in my belly now. I think it had something to do with it because we were navigating with just being open to the possibility, without expectation.
Elsbeth: Even I don't know what to expect of myself, and I have this desire. I haven't had sex with him for 20 years, or ten years, or however long. That may even be frightening for me. But there is something within me, so we then come to each other as a possibility. You know, with appreciation and something like, you know, darling, do you remember how it was when we met each other? How we were into each other. Would you like that?
Freddy: Yeah.
Leah: Yeah,
Willow: Freddy's so easy. He's just like, yeah, bring it on, honey.
Elsbeth: But most would want that.
Leah: Yeah. We all want that.
[00:39:00] CONSCIOUS UNCOUPLING
Elsbeth: Unless they're so estranged from each other. And that is then great to discover because why would I stay with a partner where there is no longer any synchronicity, even to be imagined?
and the work that we're doing with them as a way to uncouple consciously.
Leah: Okay.
Elsbeth: No, they come here to find a way back to each other.
Freddy: Yeah. And then they find that, oh, well, we really decided in our happiness that we want to be separate.
Elsbeth: Not a lot of couples.
Freddy: Not a lot.
Elsbeth: In the work, it's really facing ourselves in terms of what our desire is and then no longer selling out... you know? And that, at times, that happens, they get so crystally clear, which is such a precious moment, so comfortable, but honest, and authentic.
Leah: When I was an event coordinator for Source Tantra, it was often something that a couple would call, and they would be like, is this going to save my relationship? Because we are this close to divorce lawyers and we've tried everything.
Leah: And my response was always, Tantra doesn't promise to save your relationship. Tantra will promise to bring you back home to yourself so you can live from your truth. And wouldn't you want your partner to live from their truth? And wouldn't you want to live from your truth? And so your truth may bring you back to the same road, or it may help you see that your roads are now going in different directions.
Leah: But what if you went in different directions from a place of love, respect, and friendship versus having to pay divorce lawyers and give away all of your hard-earned money? And then hate each other, and then have the children hurt further? This is what Tantra will promise you. It will not save your relationship, but it will bring you back home.
Leah: And so it's worth hopping in. Is that something that the two of you resonate with in terms of how you see Tantra and couples?
Freddy: Well, you know...
Elsbeth: Absolutely.
[00:41:06] EXPLORING NEW AGREEMENTS AND DISCOVERING MORE OF YOURSELF
Freddy: ...what I wanna say as well, it's great when a couple sees, you know, the old sales thing where you do a T bar, and on the left, you got the things you don't want, on the right you got the things you do want.
Freddy: And in the relationship on the right, there are a thousand things that work. And then on the left, there's maybe one or two things; maybe it's money or sex or something, right? And so for them to design consciously by agreement their relationship now and forward for a year or six months or three months or whatever timeline they wanna set.
Freddy: And they agree to whatever it might be. Well, I wanna be open now and try other sexual relationships, or whatever they might be. Or you wanna live somewhere else in the world without you for a week, or for a month, and whatever. And then you work with what comes up emotionally and energetically as a resistance to that.
Freddy: But the opportunity in a relationship is to see something about yourself that you otherwise wouldn't see. Cause I'm fine by myself in the forest, but when I'm triggered with another, and I'm in my relationship there, that's when I get to see some of my resistance and stuff. So, flattening all of that stuff to life so that in the end, when it's over, it's like, man, what a life.
Freddy: Boom.
Leah: That's really juicy. Okay. I need you to parse that out just a little bit more for me. Let's pick one item on that right-hand side of the column that goes, okay, this is the part that's not working really great in conjunction with this is what I want. So one of the things you said was to open the relationship or, maybe, go to Europe for three months without you.
Leah: So how do you work with a couple? Given that information, do you have them explored? It sounds like you have them explore the idea. Okay, your partner wants to go away from you for three months, now what arises? Can you help me parse that out a little bit?
[00:42:54] 3 DOMAINS OF CREATING A FULL LASTING RELATIONSHIPS
Elsbeth: Yeah, so we identified 12 domains of creating, fulfilling, and lasting relationships, and the first three of them are sex, love, and romance.
Elsbeth: They are distinctly different domains. That love and sex and romance have to be together until death does us part. And it starts in the beginning with that promise that is so elusive. No clear conditions are set, but lots of expectations. So we are just working with a gentleman who is married and who fits a little bit, that kind of couple, where she is not open to engaging sexually.
Elsbeth: She's doing her own work, and he really wants to have sex. And, of course, lots of stuff comes up for him in the process. Where he hasn't, hadn't been sexual or self-expressed, and now in his fifties, he is very confronted with that. So we worked with him on identifying exactly all the dimensions & the domains where they have a great marriage, love each other, have wonderful kids, and beautiful home.
Elsbeth: She has her work; he has his work. They go on meditation retreats together. Everything from here to here is connected.
Elsbeth: Going sexual, they are not. And of course, all of that, what we talked about earlier, feeling bad about himself or not good enough, or he can never have it, and what's wrong with me? All of that shows up, you know?
Elsbeth: So, for him now, he decided to explore it for himself to learn more. This way he is working with us. Again, the return to self. So not looking outside for the fulfillment of myself.
Elsbeth: Now again, this is a process, you know, this doesn't happen overnight. But certain dimensions open up, and with them opening up, his trajectory can change. Because if I look at myself, there's something wrong with me. There's nothing to beget.
Elsbeth: However, if I can open that up, wow, there may have been experiences in the past that may have set that trajectory. But I don't need to subscribe to these anymore. I can start a new way of being that can be cultivated. So in the freeing of the past, we're seeing a new vision. And the learning of integrating sexual, emotional, mental, and spiritual is what really opens up a new way of being grounded, autonomous, self-connected. And that pleasure actually arises from within. Nobody can give me pleasure.
Leah: Ah-huh. Yeah. Oh yeah. I love that.
Elsbeth: You know? Now then, I can share it even if we had lots of conversations. How do I bring myself to the other? That is then another question for him. Not yet. Because it needs to be fully integrated here so that whenever he comes with an invitation, it's not an intrusion, an imposition felt by her, perhaps.
Elsbeth: I'm not saying he's intruding, but it might be how it's experienced. So how can I bring myself without expectation? Because the expectation has me being a certain energy that then creates a lack of freedom.
Leah: So it sounds like the invitation is, and for our audience, if you're going through an experience right now and you feel, let's say, sexual frustration, and you're making it about your partner needing to partner with you to relieve whatever sexual frustration, or whatever that is that you're not getting. And you're wanting to give it to your partner as if it's their job to fulfill it for you. You're saying let's take a minute and let's find the fulfillment in you first instead of making it someone else's job.
Leah: Where's that sovereignty inside of yourself so that you can now encounter yourself and the parts that you think are lacking or missing? And what if you could fill that up from the inside? So that when you turn back toward your partner and you want to do the dance. It's not coming from a place of neediness or grasping, or projecting obligation, or lack, or scarcity. Then for the partner, they get to turn towards that and will likely feel a different type of response if it's not coming from resentment, expectation, and neediness if I got that, right?
Elsbeth: Yes. And then Leah also, we want to start out not just going right to sex.
Leah: Right, right. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, everybody.
Willow: Yeah. Cause that's a big trigger. Yeah, has anyone notices that yet?
[00:48:35] LAYING DOWN THE FOUNDATION TO GENERATE THAT SPARK
Elsbeth: Actually, our foundation's workshop, a three-day foundation workshop for couples and singles, is all about cultivating emotional intimacy.
Elsbeth: The next one, the Spark workshop. The advanced workshop is then where we teach the sexual...
Freddy: ...they learn the rituals, the sex ritual practices. But there's a mudra hold that we teach in that first S.L.I. that puts people right in the space of the same intimacy that we get connected to in the sexual. And they're clothed, and it's just a mudra, you know, holding the sacrum and the top, and that puts people immediately into I'm seen, I'm vulnerable, I'm accessible, I'm held. And that can be really powerful for people. Especially around looking at these kinds of very deep, triggering opportunities, I call 'em for people. Because the whole marriage thing in a relationship, if you could see it as an opportunity for transformation. Because you look at that whole thing, to death do part, for better or for poor, richer for less, the fine print would be unless you really pissed me off. So if we could really be committed in a way so that the opportunity is to learn. To allow the other to be totally who they are in this life.
Willow: That's the crux of it all, right? That's going to be the healthy relationship for us.
Freddy: We need to own our own upset. We are born alone, and we die alone.
Freddy: I don't care how close we are in relationships with people. You gotta keep it real for yourself, you know? And so keep approaching your life like that. There's nobody out there that's writing and authoring this book.
[00:50:11] BOOK WRITING
Elsbeth: And by the way, Leah, if you wanted to write a book, have these conversations transcribed and what you say there. You have the book.
Elsbeth: I mean, it needs editing, you know, then structure. What is the point, and where do you want to go with it? But don't sit down and write; you speak beautifully.
Leah: Oh, thank you.
Willow: Yeah, transcription will go a long way in writing a book,
Freddy: for sure.
Freddy: You guys doing a collective book?
Willow: Dictation to transcription.
Willow: Yeah, we will write a collective book someday. I just finished my first book, yeah.
Elsbeth: Sex reimagined.
Willow: Yeah, it's sex as medicine in the book.
Freddy: We have to get that. We're going to do that as soon as we can get it.
Willow: It's a good one. It's just gotta get out there.
Leah: It's wonderful partnering with Willow because she has a talent for writing. So I get to lean into that. Because for me, what takes her a few minutes feels like it takes me a few hours.
Freddy: Yes. Everybody's got their kuleana or their gift. Yes.
[00:51:16] CONNECTING TO ESSENCE MAKES IT EASIER TO SPEAK YOUR TRUTH
Leah: So, Willow, I know I think you might have had a comment or question.
Willow: I think that seems to be one of the primary things that all of us do when we're working with individuals is we're bringing them back home to their own inner beloved, their own self essence, and their own authentic truth.
There's a lot less resistance and constriction when they're actually standing in that truth and holding it as something that is important and something that they need to be orienting to and moving from, moving forward.
Elsbeth: How would it be if we just did a short practice for the individual on how to connect with themselves in nanoseconds? Coming more to inner connection and then how that would look in the couple
Leah: Would love that.
Elsbeth: Yeah?
Willow: Let's do it.
Leah: Let's do it.
[00:52:16] SOLO MEDITATION PRACTICE
Elsbeth: Okay, great. So everybody set up. So I'm going to do the solo, and then you can guide the couple.
Freddy: Okay. Where are you leading? Okay, good.
Elsbeth: So, you want to place your right hand right above the pubic bone, below the navel. This is your creative center.
Elsbeth: And then the other hand in the middle of your heart between your breasts on your chest.
Elsbeth: And when you are ready, close your eyes and exhale all air.
Elsbeth: Then take a deep breath into the belly and feel how the belly opens into the hand. And on the exhalation, let the breath trickle down and out into the seat.
Elsbeth: Again, taking in a deep breath through the nose, all the way down into the belly. Now notice the opening of the belly. And when the belly is full, it moves up into the chest, into the left hand, and on the exhalation, sends the energetic breath down from your heart into the right hand.
Elsbeth: Again, a deep breath in, filling the belly, opening the belly into the right hand. Breathing up, filling the chest, the chest opens to the left. And on the exhalation, following the breath, moving down from your heart into your creation center, your sexual center, your passion center.
Elsbeth: Breathing in, the belly opens, all the way up into the heart, and on the exhalation, send your loving heart energy down into your creation center, into your sexual center.
Elsbeth: Breathing in, opening the belly all the way up into the heart center. On the exhalation, breath down with the love energy from your heart, embellishing your sex, your pleasure, your aliveness.
Elsbeth: Then breathing up creative, life-giving energy from your sexual center into your heart center, imbuing the love.
Elsbeth: And on the exhalation, sending love from your heart center into your beautiful sexual creative pleasure center.
Elsbeth: One more breath, feeling it moving up. Moving down, notice how you are now connected between your sex and your heart, your life force, and your love energy. They are connected now. They communicate, and they support each other.
Elsbeth: Taking your hands just one inch off. Feel the flow. Feel the magnetism between your palms, the heart center, and the pleasure center. You connect it; you are one between the heart and your sex.
Elsbeth: And then take your hands off. Notice how you are feeling right now. And if one of you just wanna share all of you right now, it would be great.
Willow: Well, it just never ceases to amaze me the power of simple breath work and consciousness and just moving the breath through your body and connecting different places in your body or second chakra in your heart. I mean, it's so powerful.
Willow: It's so simple. It's so easy to do. If everyone in the world were doing this every day, we'd live in a very different world. So it's really miraculous.
Elsbeth: How would you say you feel?
Leah: Well, I feel a sense of... I just had a moment of peace. That was a gift of peace in my life where I was just feeling and being in the body, and I felt a circuit of my heart and my creative center being in communication. Right?
Leah: Of not being disconnected, but being fully connected. So when someone asks me how I feel, it comes from that place where there's peace between my sexual creative essence and my heart essence. The love and passion are remembering, oh yeah, that's right. We dance really well together.
Leah: So just bringing that awareness that, yeah, that's home.
Freddy: Yeah. Home.
Willow: I get a lot of visuals when I feel at that level. And I've just been hiking in these valleys, in these caves in Turkey, for two days. So I was just having the sensation of being in the womb, really and being held by the divine mother by the one who we all come from, this Pachamama that holds us. And so it was just a womby kind of energy. I think one of you referenced it earlier; maybe it was you, Freddy, of that we're not thinking or just in that absolute stillness, that space of all consciousness, right? Where there's no brain activity, but there's just a deep sense of being.
Freddy: Yeah, and it's, this thing is moment by moment. Because even in the deepest meditators, the mind has not stopped. But what I found in my practice and what I share with people is that if we start with breath awareness work and move it like that.
Freddy: Because oftentimes people start, and you're giving them a suggestion, okay, bring the breath up into your heart, and you say that and then they're thinking... Okay, I'm thinking about bringing the breath up, but... uh....Okay, I'm waiting to feel something.... I'm looking... I think I kind of felt... you know?
Freddy: So the idea is because the mind is not gonna stop, we use the focused mind to put our attention on a location and sensation.
Freddy: And intention to move it in the direction that we want to move it. And that really helps them develop, and in my own experience, develops the mind's focused capacity to move into energetic breath, or orgasmic energy, or pain body energy, and starting to get into the somatics of the body. And feeling and moving with the mind's focus, not just wondering and thinking, which is what it's gonna do if you don't give it something to do.
Leah: Right. I love it. It's like giving the mind a job.
Freddy: Attention, attention to the sensation, location, and intention to move it out, out, whatever, up to the heart. Attention, intention.
Leah: Brilliant. Yeah. So how would you then, after the student starts to find and establish that current, that connection, that felt sense, how do they bring that to partnership?
[00:59:21] PARTNER MEDITATION PRACTICE
Freddy: Yeah, so this is a part of a practice where we're using the breath again. We're connecting, and usually, you're just facing one another.
Freddy: And we call these Tantric quickies. I've got a busy day, Elsbeth got a busy day, and she might be at the computer, and I'm getting ready to head out, and I might just do a mudra with her. And the front of the heart chakra or fourth chakra, we're in the middle of the back fourth chakra.
Elsbeth: Actually, with people who are not so familiar with energy.
Freddy: And connectedness. This is an energy ball...
Elsbeth: ...and we learned that from Charles, by the way.
Freddy: Yeah, Charles, it's wonderful. Cause it really illustrates a visual of this connectedness that exists just beyond this disconnect. So when I complete the connection within myself, the ball lights up.
Leah: Yeah, so for those of you who are listening to the podcast, maybe not watching it, they have this little white ball, it kind of looks like a ping pong ball. Yeah, will you describe that, Freddy?
Freddy: It's got a positive and a negative pole, and it works on basically open and closed systems like a light switch.
Freddy: But what happens and what makes it unique is that we become the switch. Anybody who breaks the connection breaks the circuit. And you can build large groups or small groups, but it's a great illustration of this connected, energetic self that we are.
Leah: Yeah. So now that they've got both hands, they're about to touch both hands; Freddy's hands and Elizabeth's hands are gonna come together on the ball.
Leah: And now it lights up as they connect to each other. So they each have a finger on the ball, but then they are also touching each other with the other hand. And when they release, it stops buzzing, and when they touch it buzzes, completing the circuit. Yeah. So we really encourage you if you are listening to this, to head on over to YouTube and watch it.
Freddy: Yeah!
Leah: Yeah.
Willow: Watch it so that you can see.
Freddy: Be the ball, have a ball, be the ball.
Willow: Have a ball, be the ball. Show us this mudra?
Leah: It looks like you were sandwiching her heart by having one hand on the front of her chest and then the other hand on the back.
Freddy: I'm just going to do one up front, touching the front of her chest and her touching the front of my fourth chakra center, the chest, the sternum, and we gaze into each other's left eye, the receptive center of the brain, and we synchronize our breath together.
Freddy: We exhale together, and then we receive on the inhalation from the hand of the heart into the heart.
Freddy: On the exhalation, we visualize sending into the other's heart, attention on the sensation and intention to move it, sending on the exhalation, receiving on the inhalation, and that becomes very visceral.
Elsbeth: Woo.
Freddy: The beginnings of the microcosmic orbit in terms of coitus. But it's a short little sense of that.
Elsbeth: So this is when we said earlier, we wanna first connect in emotional intimacy. We wanna open the heart, my own heart, and then my heart to Freddy. Because if I'm not connected here, it's very difficult to connect with my yoni and his lingam, the penis, the sexual center.
[01:02:31] FREE GIFT FROM TANTRA NOVA
Willow: And you guys have a gift for our audience, which is called the heart-to-heart connection.
Elsbeth: We felt that everyone who is listening could bring this practice into your life, this heart-to-heart connection.
Elsbeth: And if you are by yourself, just instead of having your hand on the beloveds, the partner's heart, or someone else's heart, just place the hands and co-center with yourself. Right hand on your sexual center, below the naval, the other one in the middle of your heart.
Elsbeth: And then you circulate within. Here we circulate with each other: same principle, a little different form.
Leah: And is this meditation, is this something that they watch, or is it something that they listen to?
Elsbeth: It's a video.
Leah: It's a video.
Elsbeth: Yeah. So we can watch and do it until you are really familiar with it.
Willow: Oh, perfect. And you'll learn quickly.
Leah: Yeah. So we're going to have that free gift for you in the show notes, y'all. So be sure to click on that link and get your heart juiced up.
[01:03:39] TRANSFORMED TANTRA NOVA COUPLE
Leah: Speaking of Juicy Hearts, I wanted just to celebrate the two of you for a moment. I had such a lovely interaction with one of your students recently.
Leah: Charles and I were doing an intro evening, and one of your amazing students was there, and they talked so highly about their work with you. And it was, probably, a couple somewhere near my age, somewhere in their forties, maybe their later forties, five kids, a successful couple. And they were drifting apart.
Leah: And they started to come back together, and they gave the two of you credit for the work you so beautifully teach. And I could feel just from this hour with you, oh yeah, that's how they got rooted in.
Leah: It's that emotional intimacy first. And they're so connected. You guys, 20 years into marriage, five kids later, how many people do you know to end up drifting apart and then not turning back towards each other?
They're having the next greatest part of their love story happening right now.
Leah: And my understanding is that they're assisting at all of your workshops, and they've done three or four of them already. And their life has changed. And they've got meditation now, and they've got practices, and they've got intimacy, and they're showing vulnerability between each other.
[01:04:59] GO ON RETREAT WITH FREDDY & ELSBETH
Leah: And I just want to say, bravo, awesome work. You guys are working with couples. You've got a retreat coming up in Costa Rica in February, so that'll be 2023. Do you do those annually? In case someone is listening to this a couple of years later because they're binge-listening to the podcast.
Leah: If they miss this Costa Rica, cause I think you only have room for one more couple if I'm not mistaken?
Freddy: Correct. Yeah.
Leah: So, can you tell us a little bit about what's in store for the couples retreat?
Freddy: This is actually the second retreat we've done in Costa Rica. The first one was probably eight or nine years ago, but we may make it a regular thing after this one because we're loving Costa Rica.
There was still the covid hangover, anyway; now people are ready to jump on it. And yes, this is the idea. We wanna spend more, you know, time in the warm hemisphere during the Chicago winters.
Leah: Good for you.
Willow: Yes, smart.
[01:05:59] STUDY WITH TANTRA NOVA IN CHICAGO OR ONLINE
Yeah, so how else do you work with couples, if not in Costa Rica on retreat?
Elsbeth: Yeah, so they can either come to Chicago, where we have workshops almost every month. Freddy teaches an all-men's workshop. I teach an all-women's workshop. Then we have our Foundation's Workshop for couples & singles, where we teach how to cultivate emotional intimacy.
Elsbeth: And then the Spark Workshop, sexual intimacy. But the emotional intimacy workshop is a prerequisite.
Elsbeth: Or, some couples don't wanna work in groups, or they prefer that One-on-One Attention. And they can either come if they are in the area here for a three-month program and work with us in person. Or they can do it online if they don't live in the Chicago area.
Elsbeth: Also a three-month program it's totally customized to their particular situation. So that's available as well, so we can work with people from all over the world.
Leah: Great. Awesome. Beautiful. And you have your book Spiritual Enlightenment.
Elsbeth: And one more thing for individuals, because often we get, once I'm gonna have a partner, I will come to work with you.
Elsbeth: I said, no, no, no, no. Start now.
Willow: Don't wait.
Elsbeth: You know? Yeah. And so, in our workshops, anyone can come solo. I started out my work solo, Freddy was not in my life yet, and it was the biggest opening for me. And it enabled me to bring Freddy into my life and clear the unavailability patterns that didn't serve me.
Elsbeth: So they can come to our co-ed workshops. They get paired up with a practice partner. And that practice partners are there to assist you in learning that which alludes to you and to clear that. It's not about falling in love; it's not about picking up someone else. And you may find someone, but that is not what the intention is. It's really your own inner work.
Elsbeth: Or many women also start out working with me, just to tap into their Feminine Essence, and then we may go on to the coed work.
Elsbeth: A great way for Guys to Work with Freddy to really connect with their sexuality and then their heart energy and move that testosterone energy up into their heart. Freddy is a great guide there.
Leah: Yeah, I think women's work seems more prevalent. You know, women go on retreats altogether all the time. They tend to be more connected. And I think it'd be really helpful, Freddy, for you to describe what men's work looks like when they're working with you, especially around their sexuality.
[01:08:49] FREDDY'S WORK WITH MEN
Freddy: The emotion is a big piece. So most of the guys are heterosexual. We do have a few bisexual homosexuals that come through the group. In all the workshops we do, there's no nudity, so people can be relieved, disappointed, or whatever.
Leah: All right.
Freddy: So it's a two-day workshop. And guys, typically, there are two emotions for guys that are okay, that's fucking, or fighting. So first is the emotional work. So we do a deep dive into an emotional practice that allows them to experience different types of emotions as a collective, a social meditation.
Freddy: And then there are other actionable insights and processes that they get, and they do. And there's not much bodywork, a little bit. But there is a self-love practice that you're asked to do between the first day and the second day as homework practice. And that's where the guys get to tap into what is one of the primary edicts for all the variations of Tantra there are, which is for the man to learn a separate Ejaculation from orgasm.
Freddy: And that piece gets guys introduced to the vulnerability, the intimacy, aligned with intention. And also, the physicality of just seeing how really attached we are to orgasms. Or, you know, is it big? Is it too hard? Is it big enough? Is it hard enough? And then beneath that is the love, and the attachments, and the jealousy, and the falling in love, and being hurt, and all the stuff that happens in this intimate vulnerability. So guys, come back the second day from that workshop.
Freddy: They're also team-building practices that we do, drumming, which is one of the things we do. And you don't have to be an expert drummer to do it. We teach some very basic things that really allow someone to drop into what happens as a tribe of a listener and a participant in that space. And guys are really good at that.
Freddy: And so that really starts to tap them in at a deeper level. And the conversations that happen for guys when it's just guys talking about the sexual stuff, they get to see themselves in each other. And they see how really pervasive this unconsciousness is for us guys.
Freddy: I mean, the new man is a Tantra man. He's gotta integrate masculine, feminine, & yin yang balance. So guys who come are really motivated to see something; they are coming with a beginner's mind. They are curious, and so it's really a great place for guys to come and keep elevating their conscious E.Q., physicality, love, and heart connection.
Leah: Yeah. Being a partner of a man who's done men's work, I can tell you there's a difference between "before" men's work and "after" men's work. My lover, husband, and best friend is so much more connected to himself. And what he brings to us is richer and fuller and has more dimension. I can't tell you how transformative it is to be in a committed relationship with someone who's dedicated to themselves and the relationships outside this relationship.
Leah: So I encourage everyone to practice self-cultivation. And if you don't know how, these are two wonderful people that will help mentor you.
Leah: And then what you bring to the table in love and in partnership just gets richer. And then they're there for you there as well.
[01:12:10] GO DEEPER WITH WHAT YOU HEARD TODAY WITH THE BOOK SEXUAL ENLIGHTENMENT
Leah: The book; what's the best place for people to get the book?
Elsbeth: Yeah, so Sexual Enlightenment, it's available on Amazon in hard copy, in Kindle, and in Audible for audiobooks. So whatever you like, however you like to consume your books, it's available. And it really guides you further through what we touched on today in the conversation.
Elsbeth: There are also some practices in there, so you can just pick it up there.
Leah: We'll definitely have the show notes to get the book. Absolutely.
Willow: What a pleasure to sit with you guys again and drop into all this wisdom and medicine.
Freddy: We gotta do something. I wanna do a Tantra caravan across the country. We're gonna have some motor coaches and some big tents. And we're gonna do some Tantra work along the way. And we're gonna video the whole thing and make a documentary or a Netflix show out of it.
Leah: I love it. I love it. Let's do it.
Freddy: You guys gotta be a part of it.
Willow: Let's do it. Yeah, do it. Oh yeah. We're there. Count us in.
Leah: Well, thank you, Freddy and Elsbeth, and love, love, love, love.
Elsbeth: Yeah. Thank you so much for this amazing conversation, guidance, and wisdom, both of you. And we just love to be in conversation with you.
Freddy: Yeah. Quite inspiring. Thank you both so much.
[01:13:32] TIME TO DISH
Announcer: Now, our favorite part. The dish.
Leah: Oh, let's dish it. Let's dish it. Freddy and Elsbeth.
Willow: Yeah.
Leah: What did you guys think?
Willow: Oh, so great. I just always enjoy sitting with those two. I think because their nervous systems are a match for mine. I just love the way they're very calm and centered, and even-keeled. And Freddy is always sparking off this wisdom, and it just comes with so much ease and grace for him.
Willow: And I like that Elsbeth has this more kind of analytical, like let's go through the steps, kind of mind. And I think they exemplify totally different brains and can be a great match for each other.
Leah: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I had the same feeling too. It was like you have this academic energy about Elsbeth, and then you have this artist's creative energy with Freddy.
And then you have the masculine sort of yang sense of Freddy and the feminine yin essence of Elsbeth. They are just such a lovely pair.
They are such a handsome couple. And I just really love them.
But this episode was really fun to just tap into the whole sexual enlightenment piece because I think a lot of people are unfamiliar with how spirituality and sexuality can come together. And like I mentioned in the episode when people think about enlightenment, they think they have to go to a guru or something in order to attain something when really it's already there inside of us.
Leah: So I like how the spiritual, sexual enlightenment aspect kind of comes from that doorway.
Willow: Yeah, I think that's probably the juice and the medicine, and the sound bite of this whole episode is that whatever it is that you are seeking on a spiritual level is already inside of you. And you really can use the hormones of heightened sexuality to open up those portals inside of your brain to access a deeper connection with your body so that there you are in the present moment.
Willow: And that is really where enlightenment lives in the present moment, where you can be in full congruence with your head, heart, and gut.
Willow: So, they really speak so eloquently to it. I just love the way that Freddy kept talking about the clay body. I love that. He's like, we're just clay. I'm like, yeah, yeah, we're clay!
Leah: We are made of the earth, this clay, yeah. Another thing that was one of my favorite parts of the episode is looking at if you think there's a problem in your relationship or with your partner. I think there's often an emphasis when it comes to sex and emotional pain regarding sex in your relationship usually because there could be a libido mismatch or something. Or maybe your relationship has been starved for intimacy for a long time. How the place to begin the process of change, transformation, and healing starts with you. It's not about your partner changing as much as it's about understanding that the fullness of your sexual expression is an inside job.
Leah: And if you can get some support there and go through your own personal transformation, then what you're bringing to the relationship as a sexual being gets cleaned up. Because it's now starting to remove blame, judgment, criticism, and hurt, I mean, Yes, it's a two-way street, and partnership has to come together.
Leah: But I think looking at sexual enlightenment from that standpoint, if you want more sex in your relationship, then be this thing that something can be attracted to.
Willow: Yeah.
Leah: And if everything else you've tried so far hasn't been working, it's not opening up your partner, there isn't a sense of, okay, we're coming together.
Leah: Then do the inside job and inspire your partner to see the transformation in you. And with hope and Faith, they may decide to go on the inside job of their own transformation and do the inner work they need to do to get clarity about what they most desire and what they most want. And the two of you can find your way back to each other.
Leah: But if we could just find the patience. I think when there are a lot of clients... I'm curious what's been your experience with your students and clients, Willow?
Leah: When a couple comes to me, one of them is really impatient, and they're hurt, and they're pissed off. Because they want more sex and intimacy, and it's already been a long time. So when I'm asking them to drop more patience. It can be really frustrating because what they want is for me to convince their partner to open up and start having more sex or else. Then the D word starts to come into play or this idea that they wanna leave.
Leah: What's been your experience with that?
Willow: Yeah, absolutely. And that's what we really brought to this interview. You know, this couple that so many of us have worked with, who one of them is, I want more connection. I want more intimacy. I want to feel cherished by my partner. I want to feel connected with my partner. And it's been years that we haven't. So they're in a rut. They're in a pattern. And, yeah, the one who's like, give to me already, does have that lack of patience. I really think that there's an opportunity there for that one who's really feeling impatient about the whole thing to go deeper within.
Willow: And that's what they kept speaking to and kept talking about. And they also said, don't give up. That was one of the things that Elsbeth really spoke to a lot.
Willow: She just said, if you're the one who wants to create more sexuality, intimacy, and connection within your long-term relationship that hasn't had it for years and years and years, don't give up. Don't give up on yourself. Don't give up on your partner. Really go deep within yourself to find and access that place that will be magnetic and draw your partner closer to intimacy with you.
Leah: Yeah. It was a good reminder too, just as a professional practitioner, to not give up on couples.
Willow: Yeah.
Leah: Because sometimes it can be a little frustrating when you're working with a couple and they're just coming from opposite ends, and they're not finding a malleability to come towards each other, to turn towards. And it feels like those little successes of the turn towards can be so infrequent. Keep staying connected to love. We even kind of talked about this, not directly, but indirectly on the episode about helping uncouple people. And when is it that you do need to throw in the towel and go, okay, maybe what the path is showing us is to go in different directions?
Leah: And I think that's why it's so important, again, to do solo work. Because that's where you're gonna get clarity. If you can both go on the inside to do this piece around your own sovereign truth like two things tend to occur. Either you are going to discover your way back, or you're gonna discover that the journey is taking you in another direction.
Leah: And then how do you wanna process if it's going in another direction? Can you move on with love? Can you move on with support for each other? Even if it means dividing real estate, possessions, travel miles, and the children. I do think there's something to be said about how you can care for the ending of a relationship from a place of friendship.
Leah: So I guess we can leave it on that note, y'all, go and discover for yourself that your sexuality is your responsibility. And be a friend of yourself and a friend to your lover.
Announcer: Thanks for tuning in. If the hosts seem to know what they were talking about, that's because they do. Leah Piper is a Tantric sex master coach and a positive psychology facilitator.
Announcer: Dr. Willow Brown is both a Chinese and functional medicine doctor and a Taoist sexology teacher. Don't forget your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.