The International Sex Toy Business with April Lampert

 

[00:00:00] Introducing April Lampert

 

Dr. Willow: You are going to be so tantalized by our next guest, April Lampert of Shameless Sex. Oh my goddess. This woman has so much to say about the sex toy industry and sexuality and just information from all over the world. She's been educating people about sexual pleasure, health and wellness for since 2008, so for a very long time.

She's the VP of Hot Octopus and travels internationally to teach and to set up sex toy companies all around the world with their products, which are phenomenal products. 

Leah: Yes, very high end sex toy products. She was also voted Woman of the Year in the adult industry in 2016, which is so cool. And her and her best friend Amy have combined forces to create the very successful Shameless sex Podcast.

And we're just so happy we've had them on the show together. We've had them on the show separately. And April is, we've been on their show. Of course we reckoned with. She's awesome. You love it. They're all about sexual empowerment and self-love and shame-free intimacy and they're super unabashed.

And April is so playful and so knowledgeable. I feel like every time I sit down with her, I learn so much. I love her political angle, the fact that she wanted to be a lawyer, her environmental passion, like all these things come together to really create a fabulous Sex educator. So, As we like to always say, 

Dr. Willow: Tune in, Turn on, and Fall in Love with April Lampert.

April Lampert: Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show. 

Dr. Willow: Yes, yes, yes. We are here with April Lampert of Shameless Sex. We're going to be talking about all things in the sex toy industry, and I'm sure the conversation will take on a life of its own, especially knowing these two ladies and their ability to just.

Yammer on about every little thing. I'm so excited chatting. 

Leah: There's so many things I want to talk to you about April, everything from like the new book to what it's like to work in a sex toy development company, developing toys that bring pleasure to people. plus like we're both Midwestern girls.

I'm so curious about like your childhood and how you made it to the west coast. And I know we've talked about on previous episodes, whether we've been on your show or you've been on our show about part of your origin story, but I know it'll be fun to kind of dig into some of the nuances on how you've landed in the world that you're in. And you guys have seen a lot of success with the Shameless Sex Podcast, and we're excited to hear a little bit about that story too. So let's just dive in, tell us about what it was like growing up and then how you got out west. 

April Lampert: So, Hi, thank you for having me you too. I love you both very deeply and dearly, and it's an honor to be here with you both.

 

[00:03:11] April's Genisis Story - Midwest to West Coast

 

April Lampert: It's funny because I grew up in Wisconsin. I went to college in Minnesota and I did a study abroad in Spain, and then I did a national student exchange. It was called in 2000 and what year was it? 2003. And I went to Humboldt State and I didn't smoke really weed or anything, and I had no idea I was from Wisconsin.

I didn't know, I mean, I had smoked like some downtown brown in high school and it was like, I got really paranoid, weird. So I didn't know about weed in Humboldt being at the time the weed capital of the United States. So when I went there I had wore like my Humboldt sweatshirt because I wanted going to school there in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

And people like, yeah, Humbolt. And I was like, what they talking about? 

Leah: Oh my god. April, I have to tell you, like I moved to Humboldt a year after high school. I graduated in '97 in Michigan and I moved to Humboldt because of the pot. It was like the marijuana place of the country.

April Lampert: I didn't know that. And so I was so excited because I didn't visit the campus, it was all done through in exchange. So it was basically someone from Humboldt wanting to go to Minnesota, which I was like, okay. And then so I was trying to go to Hawaii and no one wanted to go to Minnesota from Hawaii.

Don't blame them. So then I was like how about California? So I went out & I had this California experience, but from that Northern California perspective. And it wasn't anything I had imagined because I didn't travel a lot. I grew up very middle class, if not lower middle class family.

We didn't travel right. It was really right rare. So I didn't really know what California would be like, but I thought it was going to be more like Southern California now that I lived in Santa Cruz. And then I've lived in LA. And I was like, wow, this is really wet and soggy and there's a lot people with dreadlocks everywhere. People smoke weed. 

And I was like, wow. So I wasn't sure if it was my jam. And then I met a dude that was from Minnesota, not even kidding, randomly when I was in California. He was in a band and we fell in love and he was my first like, he was my first long-term boyfriend. I had one other boyfriend before that. And well, we I did two semesters in Humboldt, went back to Minnesota and then graduated from the University of Minnesota in 2005.

And he was like, I really want to move to Santa Cruz. Wanna to move to Santa Cruz? And I was like, I dunno, I've never been here now and I live here now. But I was studying to take the LSATs. And I thought going to law school in, I was pre-law, environmental law. I always wanted to like, change the world and specifically change environmental policies.

So I thought going to school in California would be the best so I could get residency. And I ended up really falling in love with Santa Cruz. Being in the Midwest, I was like, I don't want to be in the cold in all of this bullshit weather anymore. And then I stayed here and met Amy, my business partner now with shameless sex.

She's also my best friend. But we have this beautiful podcast, but it was before I worked in a... I don't know remember Leah the exactly the details you wanted, if you wanted to know about just how I got out to California...

Dr. Willow: What happened to the guy April? 

April Lampert: That was the reason I, so he's awesome. We're still friends.

We were best friends that were trying to be lovers. We were like, he was like a brother. And then we got to a point where our sex, just like, I remember being like, I, he's super attractive. I was just like not sexually aroused by him. And there was also all this, I was in my twenties and didn't understand arousal at the time either.

I thought they should do it for me. I didn't realize that I needed to do it for myself. But I remember just being like, I just like love you as a brother. I don't, it feels weird to be like having sex with you. Can we just do at doggy style & I don't look at you? Like that's how it was. Not because he was bad to look at just because I was like, I just don't, I don't know.

So we ended up breaking up because I had fallen in love with my now ex-husband from Israel. And I moved to Israel. that's a roundabout way of kind of saying how I ended up in Santa Cruz and how the boyfriend brought me here and I appreciate him for that all the time.

Dr. Willow: So I love how you came from this kind of like non non traveling like middle or lower class kind of upbringing and now you're like the international representative for Hot Octopus. So you travel internationally all the time. You lived in Israel, lived in Spain. 

Leah: Was that ever a dream of yours, like growing up in, in Minnesota, not Minnesota, Wisconsin, right?

April Lampert: Wisconsin, well of course. The first time I ever traveled outside of the country my mom took me on a cruise because she was fighting with her husband at the time. And so I got to go and I was 16 and I remember I went to like Jamaica, Barbados, the Caribbean, and I was like what is this? This is amazing.

Like there were people, like, even though everyone was speaking mostly English, there were just people with accents. And I was like only used to the Midwestern like, hey don't ya know. And I was so excited. I was, this is so amazing. And that's when I realized that I really wanted to travel, but I didn't know how to do that until I got into college.

And then I did that study abroad in Spain and that changed my life when I lived in Spain for almost nine months cause I did an extension, then traveled around Europe and that's when it really made me, it blew my mind. I was like I need to be in the world. Like I need to learn about people because people are fascinating.

I respect so many different cultures. And I have, I've traveled extensively. I lived in Israel and I traveled all over the Middle East for a little while. And I've been I've been all over the world. I've been fortunate enough in talking about sex in many of those places, which is really cool as well.

Dr. Willow: That's amazing. 

Leah: You know, it's funny because I'm, looking for parallels, but I remember when my mom was fighting with her husband and I went on a cruise with her. I got the extra ticket. Yes. And we went all through France, like we did a river cruise. And I was like, I'll take that.

Dr. Willow: You guys got to be the buffer between the husband and the mom. 

April Lampert: I just remember being like, I was 16 and my mom let me drink for the first time and I was like, this is so cool. Because I never was able to, she was really strict. I never, we never talked about sex. Like I grew up very conservative.

I remember my bits, my genitals were always called my no-nos. Like, don't touch that. No, no, no, no, no. It was always the no-no zone. There wasn't a lot of love or affection in my family either. I don't really remember my parents ever saying, I love you growing up. And my brother, who is actually while we're recording this, he's here visiting Santa Cruz for the first time. He's out here from Chicago. That's awesome. And it's so funny because he also works with us, like we're working on shameless sex, working on like an adult coloring book. And he's an illustrator and so he's like, as long as I don't have to draw your vulva or your butt or anything, I'll do this, cause I have to know that it's not you.

I was like, no, it's not me. And he won't even talk to me about sex because we, I'm like, so how's your sex life? And he's like, no, I won't do it. Because we grew up so conservatively, like, I'll ask my mom about her masturbation practices or if she's having sex and she's like, I don't want to talk to you about that still now.

And I'm like, mom, this is what I do. It's safe space. This is a safe vault. It's just so, it's very Midwestern. 

Dr. Willow: Well, and it's also, you have to admit, like none of our moms want to talk to us about their sexuality. 

Leah: Were they religious too? 

April Lampert: So, it's funny, my mom, we were religious, like Methodist.

And then my mom, when she got divorced from my dad, my biological father, she kind of gave up on the, on church and going to church. She was just like, kind of, I think just lost faith. And now she's religious again. I'm like, good. But very Christian. And so, but it wasn't, it wasn't like puritanical style of Christianity where you're, you know, some kind of like I didn't go to Catholic school. My mom grew up Catholic and was not into Catholicism for her children. So, it wasn't that way, but so there was some religion, but it wasn't like fear god, religion. It was just very, closed off. Just emotionally and especially with affection. 

Physical touch was not part of, and I still struggle with that now. Physical touch with people that aren't, like, not intimate partners, but friends and stuff. I'm like, how long do I hug you? How long is appropriate? How do I, and I'll go for a handshake and people like, what are you doing? Like, come here. And I'm like, oh. So it's really weird and like, massages are weird for me. Like, I'm like, I don't know what to do. But like, Willow's worked on me before and I'm like this is nice. Cause I feel like she just, you honored my space of just like, I don't know, like you dropped into my body. But it's always so weird for me because I'm like, what am I supposed to be doing?

Am I supposed to relax or am I supposed to talk to them? What do I do? 

Leah: It's great. No. is your brother older or younger? 

April Lampert: Four years older. Okay. 

Dr. Willow: And it's just the two of you siblings, right? 

April Lampert: We have a half sister that's older that my dad had given up for adoption when he was like 19.

But we're in each other's lives. I'm actually going on, I don't even like cruises, but I'm going on a cruise with her. That's the only two cruise. It'll be the second cruise. She asked me to go on for her 50th birthday next month. And I'm like, I hate cruises. I hate the environmental, environmentally speaking, I'm like, I can't. So, but I'm doing it for her. She really, really, so fyi, not important, but just wanted you to know that I'm being honest. 

Leah: Well, we like, we like the family dynamics. 

Dr. Willow: So at what point did you have to like really kind of go through a little, come to Jesus moment, quote unquote, when you had to let go of, like I'm on this environmental law path to get on this like, sex toy sexology path.

I mean, that's a very different path. However, still changing the world in a very big way. But was there a transition for you in that?

 

[00:13:01] April & Amy venture into the Sex Biz

 

April Lampert: You know, because we're writing this book, I've had to think about this a lot actually. So it's kind of auspicious in a way or it's interesting that you ask really, because there's this thing about me always wanting to make an impact on the world for the better.

I want to change the world, make it a better place. And I realized, teaching people about their sexuality is almost a gateway to, it is, in my opinion, not that everyone is sexual, right? There are some people that just maybe don't care about sex or they're asexual, which is very rare. But it does happen.

And I realize that all of these things can build on each other. And I never have given up on my dream of caring about the environment. I just feel like it can mesh with the sexuality realm. Also that's more impactful globally with people's pleasure and sex, right? Sex and pleasure than environmentally speaking, I can't change people's environmental policies in China or in parts of France or Spain, right? They're going to have their own legislation. And so this is more of this global language that you can speak when it comes to sexuality. And I never in 1 billion years, right, would've thought I would ever be teaching anyone anything about sex.

Right. Never. However, I think having this kind of pre-law background, then some law when I started studying for the LSATs, a lot of public speaking classes that I had to take to litigate if I wanted to be a litigator, which I did take people to court, which I wanted to take big companies to court that were polluters.

I learned how to speak to people and I love talking to people. I just love hearing about them, not about myself. So sometimes it's really uncomfortable for me to talk about myself. I'm like, what about you? What about you? But when I'm on this Sex Reimagined show, so I want to talk to you about your questions, but I'm like get uncomfortable.

I'm like, Ooh, what do I, what do I, what else do you need to know? So it's very, this space that I'm in is, it's like, it's so, it's mind blowing that I ended up here, but it feels so right and it has felt right since I worked in the sex shop. I started working at Amy and her mom's sex shop back in 2008 when they opened.

And Amy, we worked at a restaurant together and I was like, I'm studying to take my LSATs. She's a bit younger than I am, and she was 20, just turning 21, I think I was 25. And she was telling me how she was going to open a sex shop. I was like, really? Yeah, right. I'm like, people say a lot of things and I didn't know her that well, but we did instantly bond each other and love each other.

But I was like, ah, okay, it's Santa Cruz. There's one sex shop. The toys are in the back. I don't know, good luck. But she asked me if I would manage the store. And I was like, I don't even know. I've never been in one sex store in my life. 

Dr. Willow: You never had a vibrator before, right? 

April Lampert: I never had a vibrator, no. I didn't even know what a vibrator looked like. And I said, and I told her that. So I remember we were having lunch, she's like, so I've been thinking about I want you to work at the store we're going to open. And I was like, first of all, when is this store going to open? This is like almost two years before that they opened it. So I was like, yeah, I believed her, but I was like, why would you want me? I don't even know what the first thing about talk about sex. She's like, you're going to learn. And I was like, I don't even have a vibrator. She's like, we're going to change that.

And she hands me like my first vibrator. I was like, it didn't look like a fleshy dildo. I was thinking it was going to be like this fleshy veiny fallus. So I was like, scary. I was like, you're busting out a vibrator in. I'm like, we're a public place. 

And then she gives me like this beautiful little it was like a aluminum metal, bullet style vibrator. And I was like, oh, that's sexy. It looks like a pen. She's like, exactly. And then she gave me another vibrator after that, and then she basically just kept giving me vibrators, gently used. She'd use 'em first and be like, I really like this one. I was like, we're fluid bonded.

Dr. Willow: Oh my God. I love it. 

Leah: I love it. Now, how did the two of you meet? 

April Lampert: Amy I met, we worked at, 

Leah: No, you and Willow. 

April Lampert: Oh, Willow and I met? 

Dr. Willow: I think we met through Bobby. 

April Lampert: I guess so. 

Dr. Willow: Or no, actually there were several people, there were several people who were like, you need to meet Amy. They kept saying to me, and I was like, okay.

Because they're doing, because you guys started, I think I was on your show the second year that you did it. Or the first year? Maybe it was the first year. 

April Lampert: That's how we really officially met. But I'd heard about you because people like, you don't know Willow? You don't know Willow? You don't know Dr. Willow Brown? I was like, no. And then finally we recorded on the show and I remember Bobby saying something about like, 'oh yeah, Willow and I, we like had a thing.' I was like, what kind of thing? Okay. 

Dr. Willow: A non thing. 

April Lampert: The funny thing was I talked to Willow about the stories were totally different, separate about what kind thing. I was, hmmm? I Willow's believe Willow's story a bit more than yours. 

Dr. Willow: Isn't it funny how you can have five people in the same room, and you basically are sitting there with five different rooms because everyone's got their own perspective on what actually goes down. But I think April's partner is a mutual friend of mine as well.

And then Amy and April, was just here, yeah, and here we all are. So... 

April Lampert: No, no, that was it. I mean, the first time we met Willow and I officially met in person was when she was on Shameless Sex. We met 

Dr. Willow: before that April, we met at the oh at the Brewery Zone one time to talk about it a little bit.

We just talked about a little bit then, and then I came over. It was a rainy day, super rainy day in Santa Cruz, just as it is today. Okay. As we record this. 

April Lampert: I feel like that's when we like dropped in. I always feel like when you meet people, I'm like, I met you but we didn't drop in. I remember being like, wow, Willow's awesome, when we were recording that podcast. I was like, I really like her. So but we did meet before. You're right. Okay. 

Leah: I remember feeling like I knew you even though it took years before I actually met you because there was a picture of you at Pure Pleasure Shop when Charles and I used to come in and we came in and taught a two hour class probably every three months.

And there's a picture of you in the back near the bathroom and it's adorable. and you're standing in front of the counter and you have this like really cute panty set on. It was like ruffles on the tushy or something? At least that's what my mind remembers. It could be a little bit different.

April Lampert: It was latex paint I think or something. Cause I had been painted with latex. 

Leah: Well, you're, you turn, you turn around, so it's your back and then you have your turning towards the camera with your head looking behind you, and you're just so stinking cute. And oh. And so it was like every, for like three years, I'm in this shop four or five times a year.

And I look at this cute girl, never met her, but I know she works there. 

Dr. Willow: Oh my God. And then That's so funny. All the parallels that you two have in your life. 

April Lampert: I know. Well, we do. And I love when I officially got to meet Leah as well. And I never, I was always afraid of Tantra classes because, again, coming from my background, I was like, I am not that woo. People are going to be onto me. Right? Like the imposter syndrome. Like, I'm sitting there like, ugh, so, and not that it needs to be woo. And now I know. But back then I was in my mid twenties and I was very naive to a lot of things. And I also wasn't close-minded.

I just would always put myself in a box of I can't do that, or that's not for me. Or not right now. I was never yucking anything. I was just like, oh, I'm not that kind of person. Not knowing that you don't have to be any kind of person to learn different facets of anything. But that also comes with age and I'm 40 now and I'm like, oh, I can learn about whatever I want to learn that feels good to me. And it doesn't have to be a label. Right? I don't have to be labeled with something. 

Leah: I think there's something about like living in a cool town like Santa Cruz and you're like, you're noticing these different groups of friends and people who know each other and they usually have something in common, right?

Like they're really into like the plant medicine world, or they're really into like the Tantra world, or they're really into like the yoga world, or they're really into the surfer world. And there's a part of like, when you're trying to like, weave in and out of these groups and you don't, you really aren't in those worlds.

They're like speaking a language and, you kind of know the periphery of the language, but there is a feeling of imposter syndrome. I have felt that so many times just coming of age, different eras, different cities and trying to figure out like, who's my family here? How do I fit in? Do I speak the language?

Do I want to speak the language? Do I belong? 

Dr. Willow: I think it's part of evolution. It's like if you've never been something or you know, sat with a certain caliber of people or whatever you want to call it, you don't have a reference point for it. So you step into this. Fake it till you make it or imposter or whatever you want to call it, until you are comfortable in that role and it's an up-leveling inside of yourself.

Okay. I want to go back to one thing though before we move on into how, into the sex toy industry and your journey with that, which I just want to say April your desire to change the world into and to get into environmental policy and to kind of heal the earth from that standpoint. I always see healing sexuality as healing the earth element inside of people, right?

Because it's like, here we are in these physical bodies and we're living on this physical body. And when we heal at the root chakra and the second chakra connection to our physicality, we are healing the earth because we have more respect for ourselves as earthlings at that point. Therefore, hopefully we are having more respect for the earth.

So I just want to say you are still changing the earth in such a massive way. So good on you, girl.

April Lampert: I think that's a more eloquent way to, to get to what I was trying to get to roundabout, because I do feel on some level that people's connectedness to their bodies will connect them to where they're living on various levels and to other people.

We're all sharing this space now more, more closely than ever because of the digital world that we live in. And you can see people no matter where they are normally, if this was 20 years ago, I wouldn't be able to face-to-face with Willow in Portugal or when my mom had to call me in Spain in a landline and the hour difference.

And now it's so we get to be close to whatever we want. We can download people's television that they're watching in Beijing if we wanted to or, people watching things in Israel. I just think it's just like we're way closer. It is more one world and that's why I think sexuality does connect us and living all over the world has also given me this perspective.

 

[00:23:49] The Business of Selling Sex Toys World Wide

 

April Lampert: And this almost like an edge when I'm talking to people about sex, because it does vary. When I'm in Europe talking about sex, when I have gone to convention after convention after convention in Europe and traveled all over training stores with translators, mostly, there is a different way people speak about sex country to country that it's great to drop into. And there's a level of respect you have to have. You don't want to go in and talking about deep anal fisting somewhere where they're like, whoa, this is sort of, I feel disrespected.

So you, you ease in and you ask a lot of questions instead of just talking and expecting to be some cookie cutter scenario of, this worked in California, why isn't this working here? 

And that has helped as well. And I think that helps with shameless sex and how we speak to sex. But it's obviously not translated into different languages, so people have to understand English to listen, but The Book can be translated into lots of language.

Is it going to be, I hope so. That's a plan. 

Leah: Yes. Okay. So no, when you had to like travel these different countries and knowing, anticipating that different cultures are going to have different experiences of openness about the kind of questions they have or about the things that their customers may want if you're training a new store or educating people and you're having to like, keep this appropriate minded awareness about where you're at and who you're speaking to, is that something that came with your training or is that something that you knew intuitively and did you have to do extra research around that?

Or did people just clue you in that were industry people? 

April Lampert: Well, you're only as good as your translator, so you have to pick those folks out accordingly. And usually in Brazil for instance my translator was amazing and it is, it's a felt skill. It's almost using your intuition in your gut. I worked for a German sex toy company for many years before I worked with Hot Octopus.

And that gave me, I think a lot more because I would see how other folks would train stores and talk to customers. And I just would not cut and paste anything but take, absorb all of that information and utilize that in different situations depending on what I was doing. Right. 

Different countries, south America. I've done a lot of work in South America at sex shops and they're a lot more conservative, but having that Midwest background and bringing that in helped with how I would speak to folks there. Also there's some states just flat out states that have a lot different cultural values and norms that I'm not used to either. And I was like, whoa. And Australia, New Zealand, and all of these different places that I've gone to that have, they're either 10 years behind on some levels or they're way far advanced to what I'm used to. So it's just dropping in and asking questions and then learning about also about what the demographic is of each store, each location.

There's micro climates of what people are doing at all of these retailers. 

Dr. Willow: What are some of the countries that have surprised you where you're like, oh, wow, you guys are way ahead than I thought you were going to be. 

April Lampert: Australia is one of those because there are sex shops that you can actually also get a sex worker. Which I thought was really cool because it's very consensual. It's very open. It's not as closeted as and shameful as is when you go to other places. And then Spain was really interesting because Spain, you have to do a lot of finessing talking to people.

It's not just giving them this rundown of the products and what they can do. There's like lunches and dinners and drinks and hours and hours and hours of nurturing people before they even want to talk about your products. And I'm like, I've been hanging out with you for eight hours. We haven't even talked about any of the products yet.

And Brazil was really interesting because it's so difficult to get really nice sex toys into the country because of all of their import taxes are incredibly high there. So you pay 70% more for a product. And I have always worked for very high end, very chic sex toy brands.

So they don't have access as much to those products. So when you're looking at their selection of really toxic products and clamshells that don't look sexy and probably aren't very good for your body, that was a challenge because it's not about even what you are, what you're selling to them at that point, or what you want to, and I don't consider myself a salesperson because I'll be like, don't buy that. Let's buy something that's everyone's going to want. Or the larger majority of people, 80% of people, but they were like, we can't afford that because that will be 500 US dollars in, if you do the math. And I was like, no, I couldn't even afford that. So, learning just about the socioeconomic status of each country as well is really important.

And embracing never assuming that anyone is a specific way or remotely like you. And just going in for the better of the people and not of like, I'm going to make money off of these people. I'm like, no, I want you to have access to the products that would do well because people should have these beautiful sex toys.

But I get it they're too expensive. And Hot Octopus, we have that problem because we have such specific technology that is patented. There's nothing else like our sex toys, specifically the ones we make for penis owners, but we patent almost all of our tech and we only have 14 different products.

When I worked with Fun Factory, the German company, they're one of the oldest high end manufacturers, have been around since the nineties. And they they make all of their products, they make them all in Germany, so they have a lot more. Capability to work with the product sign. They have 126 different skews and a lot more ability to work with pricing.

But Hot Octopus is so tiny that we don't, we're from London as well. The company Hot Octopus. So products just, they're more expensive. But I love, I love the Sex toy industry. I don't know, even if I won the lottery tomorrow, cause the lottery right now as we're recording this is like, I never played the lottery.

It's like 2.2 billion or something's. Crazy. Bought a ticket. But I was like, I would still want to work in the sex toy industry even if I made this 2.2 billion, which after taxes, it's probably like a million right now. 

Leah: Well, I did, okay, this is a total side note, but like I heard, I was listening to it last night or the night before, some guy won some portion of some lottery somewhere, like 32 million.

And he was, he did not tell his wife or child because he did not want them to stop working or think they didn't have to work. So he is hidden the full 32 million and his family does not know. Well, I kind like it. Unless I was his wife, I would be like, excuse me? I'm so retiring. 

April Lampert: All of a sudden he shows up with something fucking fancy, fancy car.

He's like, oh, this was a gift. Like, that's like that's. 

Leah: I won the Lamborghini. It's all mine. 

April Lampert: Interesting. But I would wanna work, I mean, come on, like I want to give back. I'd probably want to donate half of that to global shifts, the environmental shifts. But I would have to work and I'd probably pump money into the sex toy industry for legislation to pass.

I sit on the Free Speech Coalition board. There's like only a few select members of the sex toy industry. Kind of like the OGs, if you will. And we work to help with censorship that happens especially in the sex education realm. Change legislation for banking because sex toy companies are considered to be porn pornographers.

Leah: Oh, really? 

April Lampert: Which I have nothing against pornography either. I'm on, come on. But they consider us smut, pedalers and sex traffickers. Even though we do none of those things, we're educators. So getting banking is nearly impossible. We have to use these really obscure banks with really high rates. So we're trying to work on passing at least getting some legislation a bill written and then we work on various other things in terms of getting normalizing talk about sex all over the world. So it's really interesting to be a part of that and to see what people are dealing with all over. And this is specific to the United States, but the banking thing is really tough. That's, and it's we're treated like drugs. 

Dr. Willow: it points to like it feels like, I don't know if it's because of what we all do and we love what we do and yeah.

If we win our 2.2 billion, we're still going to do what we do because we are just in the right place with our professions. But so for us, it feels like sex has come such a long way. And then you look at stuff like that, you're like, oh my God. We still have so much work to do to bring this aspect of what it means to be a human being, a healthy human being to like the forefront of consciousness.

Like it's just, it's crazy to me. 

April Lampert: It is. Social media specifically makes it extra difficult. And even with, your Sex Reimagined, you do beautiful, holistic, speaking to everyone from this deep foundational aspect of how to shift things right sexually in their lives for pleasure.

And you post something on Instagram or TikTok and it's nothing to do with with what your tits aren't out, you're not showing anything vile. I would show half of the things to a, like a 13 year old. Really. I'm not kidding that we post because it's educative and you get shut down or shadow bands and it's a bummer because you don't understand what to do and you can, you invest time and energy and money into these platforms Absolutely.

To help get more people the messages so that's difficult. So I hope that never happens for you too. 

Dr. Willow: But right now my entire social media is shut down. My Facebook and my Instagram completely wiped out. 

April Lampert: Did you get shadow banned? 

Dr. Willow: I don't know. There was a massive breach to Instagram. I don't know if, but they are saying inappropriate content and I sure have had a fair share of that on Facebook, which is why I have moved more to Instagram.

But anyway. 

Leah: So if you're listening, please go follow. Dr. Willow. 

Dr. Willow: Follow Dr. Willow, not Dr. Willow Brown because that's closed down now, unfortunately. 

April Lampert: It's just Dr. Willow. 

Dr. Willow: So fortunately I still had my old Yin wellness, my last business. I still have that account, so it just doesn't have the followers. 

April Lampert: Well,we've had people open up fake accounts too on us.

Leah: Really? 

April Lampert: And they look so legit. I've had people do fake accounts for me, it's like the real April lampert, and then you click on this link and it went to some camming site and the girl was making $25 a minute. And I was like, maybe I'm in the wrong business because that's some good ass.

I was like, wow. I mean, I, it's against everything I've worked for though, because of course people specifically, if they think I'm in porn and I, again, nothing against porn for ed, for entertainment, not for education, right? As long as people are being paid fairly and treated fairly and they're doing it consensually, I am so pro that form of entertainment. But when it's me not consenting to someone using my name and my body and my images saying thatand they're making $25 a minute, I'm like, first of all, good for you to hustle, but second of all ... 

Leah: You owe me a big fat check and you gotta shut that shit down.

Dr. Willow: Exactly. 

April Lampert: It got shut down very quickly, but that was necessary. 

Dr. Willow: Oh my goodness. I can't believe that. 

April Lampert: Anyway, that was a side note too. It's, it's weird. 

Leah: Well you're making me really want to get into the sex toy business. Like, okay, how do I get a job? 

Dr. Willow: I thought the same thing. 

Leah: One of these other like high end sex.

I'm ready to travel the world and schmooze and wine and you'd be great it talk all the things. I would be good at it. 

April Lampert: You would be great. You would be really great at it. 

Leah: All right, well let, lemme know when there's an opening. 

April Lampert: In this industry, we're seeing a lot of shifts, right? We were, so during the pandemic, it's funny because I've been in this industry since now, since 2008.

But this has been one of the most challenging years because during the lockdowns and all the things that were happening, everybody wanted sex toys. Everybody, their mother, their brother, their cousins, everybody wanted sex toys. It was great.

It was like it was raining on the sex to industry. It was hailing. And so we didn't do anything, we didn't have to do marketing or anything, people just buying sex toys cause they were at home and they're bored. They wanted to work ontheir sexuality. And they were probably pissed at their partners or their, over their partners.

Or they wanted just like more flavor with their partners. 

Leah: They're bored, they're ready to burn one off. 

April Lampert: Yeah, burn went off burn some calories, get some juice, amazing. So we saw so much of like, 400% growth in a short amount of time. Wow. So this year though, it's shifted. So it's a little, so people are making every, like everyone else, it's been people spending is being directed towards other facets.

So it will come back. Sex will never, that's the thing. Job security. Just like if you are in any sort of therapy or you're in any sort of work that has to do with well hospitals, right? Any of those kinds of lines of work, there's job security. People are always going to need you. And people will always, on some level, want sex toys and they'll spend money when they know they're getting quality.

So there might be room for you this year? Nah, it's out. Next year, I think it's it's said to be, it's going to probably a little bit of the same, but then it's going to start increasing again. So ask me again. I love to hire all of my friends, so, because I know how good, especially you, Leah, you'd be great.

Dr. Willow: I'm curious about China. Have you been to China? 

April Lampert: I have. 

Dr. Willow: What's their climate in the sex realm? 

April Lampert: So the thing about China, 90, I'm going to say 98% because there's probably 2% of manufacturers that make products outside of China, but almost 98%. Some manufacturers have moved their manufacturing to Mexico and only a few manufacture in places like Germany or the us right?

It's very rare or Canada, but those are very small brands. China is where most of them come up, and the trademarking laws in China. So our patents is as a global, worldwide patent for our technology, our pulse plate technology, and trebble and based technology. However, China, they can make knockoffs of anything really well and beautifully executed.

So what happens in our trademarking laws in China for Hot Octopus they aren't honored. it's a whole different network like of legislation that you have to go through and licensing. So our license and our trademarking and our technology is duplicated there all the time.

So you get knockoffs of Hot Octopus, that doesn't happen anywhere else in the world except for China. So you see some of it. We actually do business in Hong Kong well. We we have Singapore as well. Malaysia, actually Malaysia it's illegal, but we still get some in there. Some countries it's completely illegal to have sex toys. With Thailand, it's illegal to have sex toys in Thailand, to sell sex toys. With China people love our product, but they're buying knockoffs, so we've seen a decline. And we know about this because our customer base there. We do business to business, not business to consumer. So that's how I know that it's a problem. And you get a product for $10 as opposed to our hundred plus dollars. So it's a little shitty.

 

[00:38:55] International Sex Education

 

Dr. Willow: But I was curious more about like their openness, their progressiveness, their, you know, around sexuality. 

April Lampert: They're pretty progressive. They are with sex toys. 

Leah: Oh, buying sex toys. Sex education is really hard to from my understanding, really hard to accomplish in China. Interesting. You can go to jail. 

April Lampert: Oh, okay. Well, not, China isn't actually as bad as you think. It depends on what areas. Shanghai, Beijing, it's not as much as what what you're seeing. But people are more reserved.

And there's the biggest sex toy convection in the world is in China every April. And so it's, they're not as much as you think when you go into the poor, more rural areas. Yes, of course, there's a lot that same thing. But the cities, there's a lot of censorship that goes on in China, for instance.

There's no social media really. TikTok exists. There's no social media because the government, it's a totalitarian society, right? So you have these governments that censor everything. So it is different, but in term, people are hungry for information there and it is changing. They're a superpower country with a lot of money being infiltrated.

So they definitely want more information. And sex is like the education there isn't yet where it is here. But people want to have sex and they more and more people want that like lifestyle. That western lifestyle really is what it comes down to. 

Leah: Now when we travel to Thailand and do retreats we have a lot of Chinese students that travel to Thailand.

We also have a lot of Chinese students that go to Bali and come to the US to take courses. But when our educators, when we've trained people and they go back to China and they're blogging websites get shut down, they try advertising, their advertisements get shut down. They have a very hard time doing classes within China.

And so a lot of them end up working with retreat centers out of country to try to bring their community out of the country to do things like study Tantra and Taoism and some of these other. 

April Lampert: But that's the government, that's not the people. 

Leah: Right. No, no, no. That's totally the government.

The people are hungry for it. Still very shy. There's still a lot of shame connected to sexuality. Like there's everywhere. But it's the government, like trying to do business as a sex educator, it is fraught with danger from what people in the sex education industry tell me when it comes to China.

But that they have people are like pounding down their doors wanting something. 

April Lampert: Well, that's the thing, you're totally right. It's just the government. But there are sex shops in China. There's a lot of them. And there's when it comes to sex toys, now education's a completely different thing, right?

You want people to consume and buy products, but educating them? Be careful educating anyone because that will be not letting the lambs go to slaughter. The like education is a government's worst tool to provide or allow in these kinds of governments. But in terms of what Willow was asking and people are hungry for it and Leah you obviously know firsthand as well that people are hungry.

They want that and they'll travel outside of it. But the government does a hell of a job being being total control freaks. 

Leah: I wonder what the, I wonder what the thing is, like what the fear of like, sex positivity would somehow challenge the government law or would challenge authority, because I think that's not just a China thing.

I think that's actually, when you look at some of the laws just in the US especially around sex work and what they're doing with websites and censorship online. I mean a lot of stuff has changed just in the past eight years. What is going to really happen when people are sexually whole and sexually open and sexually curious and sexually educated is as if that kind of opening and awareness in our bodies is going to somehow challenge authority and it's going to like bring down this, 

April Lampert: It will though. 

Leah: I dunno what the big that is. The dunno that it will. 

Dr. Willow: Because it's so powerful.

I mean, that's also why the feminine has been oppressed for so long. 

Leah: I think it's powerful, but it's not going to like create anarchy. I mean people still want the roads in their school. 

April Lampert: Controlling fucking people in office. These white men of privilege, it won't give them the power that they want when people have autonomy over their own agency. Sexual agency? That's a scary thing. It's a control factor. I'm not even a conspiracy theorist, but everything, whenever I think about people wanting to control their own bodies, right? 

Or Oh, oh no, like healthcare, the healthcare system. That's why it's like pop these pills. If you don't need viagra that's a huge problem for who? The fucking pharmaceutical industry. I'm sorry I swear so much. I am like a sailor part, part sailor, part pirate. So I really, but that's the thing, when you look at these things, when people have their own sexual freedom. Yes. That's a beautiful world. Without a doubt, I feel like that will be there at some point, and I hope so for the sake of the youth these days that are becoming more sexually aware. When they learn about their pleasure rather than what sex looks like. 

No, it's about pleasure, not about your sex. It's about your body, yes. But about your pleasure not having someone else do it for you. But when people realize that there's things outside of needing to pop a pill to make them feel better, or, oh, I don't need birth control because I could do things in a this other way.

That's a huge problem for big pharma. And big pharma is a huge problem for politicians and it all cycles into this big giant Blob of bullshit that we've all been living in for so long, that will hopefully change. So I'm all about some sex education, but that's why we keep getting shut down.

Dr. Willow: It's absolutely true. 

April Lampert: I'm wearing my gloves. 

Dr. Willow: It's cold. It's cold over there. Ya gotta get your gloves on. Gotta get your fighter gloves on. 

April Lampert: No, I'm wearing them to fight the big pharma. 

Dr. Willow: I mean, when we're working privately with clients or we're teaching retreats, or we're working with groups, I mean, all of us were helping people come into their own agency and their own authentic truth.

And when they have access to their authentic truth and what's really, really true for them, not what somebody says should be for them, or how they should look or how they should feel. A sense of. Oh my gosh, I get to choose comes online and that's where the danger lies for government and pharma. It's like if people are making choices from their authentic truth and their truest, deepest self, they're not going to choose these bandaids.

Right? They're not going to choose to keep going and following the path of the sheep, like they're going to choose something different. 

Leah: I hadn't really thought of it quite like that before and it's interesting I'm looking at it from another perspective because we're in a teacher training right now and I'm seeing how some people are through their own process of like healing and self-discovery.

They are dismantling what's been handed to them, that says, this is who you are. And this is how you should like sex. And they're starting to discover, oh, actually I'm something other than that. And I'm going to take this off of me. And I'm now going to, because I have more information, I have more experience in my body and I'm now aware of, I tried that on, it wasn't me.

And now I'm going to live more fully from this authentic place. And I feel like I went through an experience like that, but it hasn't changed dramatically how I vote, it hasn't changed dramatically my lifestyle. What it's changed is who I fall in love with. What it's changed is how I love myself. What has changed is it's opened my mind to more curiosity, but my values have basically stayed pretty much the same shape.

They've just become more clear, and they're living from a place that's more centered and that knows myself for myself. I'm not trying on other people or looking outside myself to say, tell me what I should think and tell me what I should feel. 

And, but I also come from a place that's also naturally more liberal & has been influenced, and my conditioning has been influenced by more liberal framework.

Like my parents in Michigan were hippies, so that was like... 

April Lampert: yeah, you were lucky. 

Leah: Although they had the some conservative issues, they were coming from a different framework, so that's sort of ingrained as well. But I think it's interesting about what you're saying and when you start to dig deeper, how much it would affect who gets elected and the money that comes in and the infrastructure that's there, that kind of keeps us in a sickness versus a wellness way of looking at our health.

And sex is so much about our health. It's so integral to our health, our mental health, our physical health, our reproductive health our gender health, like all those things. Yeah, you're right. It's huge. It's bigger than I really grocked. 

April Lampert: It really is. Sex is such a, it's something that also I think, When you're talking about having you had a lot of upbringing, at least Leah, from what you just said, I don't know about Willow, your upbringing around sexuality was you were informed on some level, and maybe you could ask questions openly and people would talk to you about it?

Leah: They attempted, but it felt more like a lie. Like they wanted to be open, but they didn't know how to be open. They hadn't done enough of that self-discovery within their own bodies. So although they had a theory in their head of like, I want my kids to feel safe and to come to me, they weren't safe enough within their own bodies for me to really feel safe and come to them.

So it was a nice gesture, but it wasn't true that. But that was like, I had to go on my own sexual rollercoaster. It really wasn't important so much. 

April Lampert: Which sometimes you meet people that you meet on these sexual adventures. And that's what I did, since I had no one talking to me about sex.

And now you have the internet, which for better or for worse there could be great things, but there could be a real rabbit hole for teenagers that aren't comfortable enough with asking their parents or their peers or whoever about sex and they're seeing certain things happen. And that's why I think it comes back to where the education lies within is the public school systems and people are having sex at a younger period of time.

And comprehensive sex education on some level is many times about people's anatomy. It's not about pleasure. If you look at countries like the Netherlands for instance, they have sex education that's about pleasure. Even showing porn on some level Depending on what grade they're in.

I don't know what level of school that is but they talk to them about sex and they are very advanced. Holland now known as the Netherlands, is very advanced when it comes to not only sex education and sex work, but the drug world as well. Right. Especially plant medicine that's out there for folks to try.

But it's just to see what happens when I've traveled in the Netherlands so many times all over and to see what happens with how people have the sexual agency that they have there compared to other places that are just over the border is incredible. And that's what I think needs to shift. We can teach adults about Sex and their bodies and pleasure.

But I think it does stem from post pubescence and people need that education early. And when I talk to parents about their kids, cause I don't have children, but I'm like, yo, what do you talk Like my friend that has two boys, they're like 13 and 12. And I was like, are you talking to them about sex?

She's like, oh, no, no, no, no. And I was like, why? She's like, what would I say? I was like, everything, well, you could start off with sex is about your own pleasure and you don't touch anyone else unless you have their permission and ask what feels good. And she was like, I never thought of it that way.

I was like, exactly. So it just perpetuates. And she's a woke woman and amazing. And, you know, she's such a good mother, but when it came to sex and about her two boys, it's off the table. She's uncomfortable. 

Leah: Yes. So it's that discomfort. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just look at how we still virginized women who are moms.

It's like suddenly a woman becomes a mom and No, what it's like. She becomes sexless. It's just the most bizarre thing I think that we have in our culture left over from this Virgin Madonna. Which is strange because Mary had Jesus and then she ended up having like four more children or something like that, and yet we still call her the Virgin.

We're just perpetuating a lot of misinformation. But anyways, that's going off on a whole nother tangent.

 

[00:52:12] Designing Sex Toys

 

Leah: I'm still kind of curious about like, how you help design sex toys? And like, where that is so fascinating to me. Like, how do you get the research, how do people come together and go, it needs to be this shape.

I mean, when I use sex toys, I do think about like, oh, I wish it was like a little softer, or wouldn't it be nice if this was like, I like this shape, but I don't like, it's a little too hard and I wish it has like a little softer and a little more give design. So this is how it works? This is how it works.

Dr. Willow: You use them and then you ship them. Right? 

April Lampert: I use them. And this is the thing, I'll give you a short example; it will really ring true with how sex to design works. Working in Pure Pleasure Shop. For years I collected, I loved vibrating coch rings because you can put them on a shaft of a penis and or a dildo.

If you don't, if you're not into actual penises, you can put them on a dildo. Some go around the testicles, some don't. But I had a collection of, I'm not joking cause I just counted the other day, like 13 different cock rings and now I have a few more. Some are expensive, some are not so expensive.

But I remember using them because you put them on the penis and then you can grind on them. And so if you want external pleasure on your clitoris or on your labia, like on your outer and inner labia, like it really does help with surface area and grinding. And I love external stem, but then it also, you get vibration on the actual penis itself.

So I'm like, this is awesome. But every time I'd use a cocking that was designed for dual stimulation for his and her play, we'll say. They were always these damn rabbit ears that would be vibrating, that were too big. And so I'd cut 'em off. And I'm like, or they'd be a hair puller. I'm like, this is so not, this is, I'm like a man totally designed this because this is not for a vulva. So I cut him off and the material was like this tpe. So it was rubbery and it would hurt, like getting it on. I'm like, God, or it was weak. Like there was no vibration that could be felt. Cause if you have a cock that's vibrating and you're having penetration, whether it's anally or vaginally, the penis vibrating feels really great cause it can touch a Gspot. It can just tap into different areas. But none of them were powerful enough. So with Hot Octopus, Adam,one of the co-founders Adam and Jules, he's like, I want to design a cock ring. And I was like, let me just go here with you with this. I'm like, it has to be soft.

So I gave him all of these things. He's like, really? Really? I never thought about that. Really? I was like, yes. because you have a penis. And you're, I mean, it's great and you've done, you've designed amazing penis toys that makes so much sense. But when you have penis owners that are designing toys for vulvas. So I gave him all of my tips. I was like, we don't need any bunny ears. We don't need anything that, we need two motors, it needs to be stretchy and it needs to fit the cock and the balls. And it needs to get perennial stimulation. 

Leah: Yes. I want that entrotis to vibrate. Yes. 

April Lampert: And he was like, he never thought of it. So then when we make prototypes that won't have as powerful as a motor in the final product. But then we'll test them. But we test them not just on me because I am a wheel. Yes. I'm like, I want it hard! and some of my friends are like, that toy is the most intense toy. Like, I can't use that. I'm like, oh, really? 

So you have to test it on lots of bodies and usually we start between 50 and a hundred depending on the product and it'll be different iteration. I will have a say, but sometimes it goes back to like, that can't be done because of where the, where the motor has to be a specific way or there's some kind of seal that has to go on it, or the, that motherboard can't fit in that certain area, so it'll have to go back.

So it takes sometimes two to three years to design a product. 

Leah: No. That must be really expensive to design a product. 

April Lampert: It is. Which is why we are really particular about when we go into a new product. I won't test any penis toys for obvious reasons. I don't have a penis. So I'm like, okay, but we'll send them to other penis owners.

And then we have focus groups. We at Hot Octopus incorporate sex and disability into the manufacturing of our products. So folks that have, whether they're blind, whether they're completely paraplegic. Whether they have M.S., there's rheumatoid arthritis. 

We want to be as inclusive as possible. It will be nearly impossible to ever fit 99% of all people into what the products we used but we shoot for 90% to 85% of people. So sex toy development it's a game of trial and error. It really is. And you're never going to please everyone.

And for me, I give my feedback based on my years of experience and the amount of sex toys that I've used, and that helps. And then I test everything and then I have my friends test it and then they answer a questionnaire. But it's not only from me because I'm just one person that likes things a specific way.

I have a shallow vagina. So I know that a big giant toy that vibrates won't feel good to me. But I have friends that have deeper vaginas that I'm like, yo, can you test this? What's the size of your vagina? How many fingers can we fit there? Can you test this product? Right? 

Leah: We need to start talking about the size of vaginas, because I find that very interesting.

Dr. Willow: Well, there's a whole thing in Taoism around the size of your vagina and the shape of your vulva. And if you have inner labias that go down below the outer labias and it has all this meaning to it, it's very interesting. 

April Lampert: I didn't know I had a shallow vagina until gyno told me.

She's like, oh, yep, you got a shallow of vagina tipped uterus. I was like, what? I was like, I think I was 21. And I was like, what is she talking about? And I thought, I was like, am I broken? Is that normal? She didn't say anything else. She's just like, yep, you got a tipped uterus and you have a shallow vagina. I was like, good luck.

Good luck out there. Which is why I can't wear a menstrual cup. So I have to wear, I wear the thanks underwear. But I've had to get two, two different. Two different, going to the doctor to get them removed. Two different varieties of diva cups, menstrual cups removed by the doctor because I couldn't get out.

It's sucks, it flips around. I worked on diva cups with fun factory and I was a tester and I had, this is where the problem came. So I tested 15 different diva, they're not called diva, that's the brand diva. I tested Diva cups, but 15 different menstrual cups from all over the world and none of them worked. From the hippies that like meditated in Halifax Nova Scotia to learn about the moon cycle.

And that thing got stuck to the ones with a hook. And they do have that fun factory made different sizes because of me. Because they were like, oh, you have a really, but also because of the amount of blood, they made different strawberry sized ones that I was like, because it wouldn't fit.

And that was right when I left the company. But I have, I've tested because I had to for work, I tested all these menstrual cups. None of them worked. And the doctor, the last time I went in to get the second one removed because another one I had removed. Cause my sister had to help me get it out. My nephew walked in, she had a toothbrush in my vagina to get the seal to break.

He walked in right when we she was doing it. We were like, get out! I was like, oh my god we are scarring for life. I was like, eh, so I go explain. I was like, so I had something stuck inside of me. Your sister or your mom had to help me? She's my sister, but this is not okay. You don't just do that. 

Leah: We're a long way from Wisconsin. 

April Lampert: But my sister, I was like, I can't get this thing out.

That was the third time. But the doctor was like, you cannot wear these cups. I was like, well what about these? He's like, no. I had a male doctor at the time I lived in LA now I couldn't get anywhere else, but yeah, so I have trauma. Not really trauma, but I'm terrified to try them ever again. Like I'm terrified and I love them.

Everyone's like, why don't you have your menstrual cup? I was like, dude 

Dr. Willow: It doesn't work for the shallow vagina don't. But thinks which is actually very healthy for you to have the blood flow through your vagina. It's very healing to the tissues as well. 

April Lampert: Oh good. 

Dr. Willow: You're doing well. 

April Lampert: It definitely, I have less cramps now.

I have less because I was wearing tampons for a long time before they had good period underwear. I was wearing tampons. And I hated them. I hated them. I hate the environmental impact. I hate all of what they do, how they make me feel. And I noticed now sometimes you have to wear them. Like I went to a spa yesterday and I'm on my moon cycle, and I had to wear a tampon. 

Dr. Willow: We're mooning together.

April Lampert: We're mooning. Well, it's a full moon, so that makes sense. I know a lot of women that are mooning. But I was like, I can't wear my thanks, but I feel different when I have to wear a tampon. Like it does some things to you and I'm appreciative of that. But coming back to the menstrual cups, love them.

I just wanted to bring that up because testing, it's not a sex toy, but it's testing. And I have done multiple testing also couples products like the duo. We make this thing called the Pulse Duo. And I've had partners that hate it, right? That are like, I don't like that thing. And I've had other partners that love it.

So it's an interesting thing about humans and I feel like the rule of three with sex toys is the way to go. So if you try a sex toy once, you don't like it, give it two more times and on the third time you're totally over it, then you know you can recycle that to your friend. That's why you buy good material.

Cause you can wash it. Give it to your friend and you're on, you're on, you know, you're on a, you're on a new thing, then 

Leah: That's fine. I think that's good advice at least three times because I have to say, I've tried things once and thought I didn't like it, and then I hate throwing shit away if I spent money on it.

So, then I'll keep it and then like five years later I'll try it again. I'm like, oh, actually this isn't so bad. I've changed my mind. 

Dr. Willow: You're like, oh, look at me. I'm a whole new person. Oh my gosh. 

Leah: That's the human body. Your hormones change and your interests change and like, you know, you change.

So it's worth, even if you think you don't like something now, you might like it later. 

Dr. Willow: Three times a charm. That's what I'm reading. 

April Lampert: Well, I, I had a sex industry or a sex industry, a sex injury when I was 17, my outer labia was ripped in half. Oh God. That's because of condoms and it was dark and we were drinking and so I had to go to be stitched up.

I rode in the ambulance, which I was 17, so I was on my parents' insurance, my dad's insurance specifically, who I barely ever talked to. So he was like, why is there a a, a $1,800 ambulance ride when you were in the Poconos, I was camping in the Poconos, I was on phish tour. I was like, I used to love the band phish.

I still do, but I was on fish tour and with dirty hippie boyfriend. And and so that injury has made sex toy testing really interesting because there's a scar and so the tissue, it really it would hurt for a long time using anything and grinding. But I found that using after using sex toys on that gently myself, and that's why I think I might be such a power queen because it's not my clitoris, but there's still nerve endings in your outer labia, so, that was part of me wanting to test sex toys as well.

Because if you have trauma from childbirth or if you've had sexual trauma from an act of sexual violence there, there's things that haven't. And that was a whole thing when I was getting stitched up, the doctor thought I had been raped and I was like, no, it was a sex accident from an un lubricated condom.

Cause I had an un lubricated condom from PA Planned Parenthood grab bag. 

Dr. Willow: You guys must been going to town? 

April Lampert: Yeah, he was definitely like forceful. I wasn't, I was like wanting to have sex with him, but I was super drinking too much wine. I was super like un lubricated. I didn't know about lube back then.

I didn't know about sex toys, so I just, we put on this condom and then he kinda like too far, too fast. Shoved like most men do too far too fast. 

Dr. Willow: They don't have sex education behind him. Yes. 

April Lampert: Well, exactly. And he didn't, so, and it was completely dark, so you couldn't see anything. So it was just, it's somewhere around here.

But my dad was like, my dad was like, what happened to you? And I was like, I fell on a strip.

 

[01:04:32] April weighs in on Lube

 

Leah: Well, speaking of lubricant, I would love to hear your, what you think like the top three lubricants are specifically for internal penetration, both anally and vaginally. 

April Lampert: So, okay, so for a long time I didn't know like why lubricant like would get tacky or stay slick.

I didn't understand the difference between water based and silicone based. And then there's oil-based as well. So just a precursor for anyone that isn't unfamiliar with lube, water-based mimics mostly what you would naturally produce in your body. Some of them put more chemicals in than others.

I like a more natural one. So that means it needs like to be reactivated because it, it gets absorbed into your skin faster, which makes it lighter. So if you're very sensitive, if you get a lot of yeast infections or you are sensitive in general. 

Leah: Your tissues materials might be thinning or something. 

April Lampert: Then you water-based might be a good option. Silicone though is slicker. And the thing is with silicone lube, especially if you're doing anal stim it's better because it doesn't absorb into your skin as fast. But some of the silicone lubes up there are really thick and they're like, you have it on for three days later and you're like, I took two showers.

And they're goopy and like, what's going on? And then there's hybrids, which is a little bit of both. That are okay. But it's hard to find a good one. 

And then there's oil-based lubes, which people think of oil-based, like coconut oil or olive oil. I personally, coconut oil is fine. Like I've used it before in a pinch, but cause it's antimicrobial.

But at the same time, if you are again sensitive to anything that goopy materials on you, it could be a prominent, stains your clothes. So there's a different thing. 

So I love Uber Lube for silicone lube. It is by far, probably started using lube, which was around 2008 when I figured out what lube was.

And even though even if I have no problem getting wetness or arousal is stimulating fluid because sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't. I still like lube because I just like an ease of penetration. I like things Yes. to run smoothly. 

With water-based lubes I actually love, it's called Oceanics Sliquid Lube.

I think Oceanic. And they make it's organic lube and it's amazing. They were out of it for a long time because there was some sourcing issues, but I think they're back and it's awesome. And that one for water-based lubes, so if people are sensitive listening, that one's awesome. And it's toy friendly.

Silicone lubes you probably shouldn't use with any medical grade silicone toys unless you're going to wash them right after. So oil-based there used to be this brand called Yes, that made this like Almond oil lube. It was from the uk. I don't know if they still make it, but that was the best lube and it smelled so good.

But you could use coconut oil as well. 

Leah: What about Aloe Lubes? 

Dr. Willow: There's a good all out there right now. I forget the name of it. 

April Lampert: Pjur Makes a good Aloe Lube. PJ u r. They're a German-made lube company. And then there's another one called Satiel. Satiel is really good. They're made from women in Canada and it's water-based and it actually lasts long time.

It's like S U T I L Satiel. And they also have flavored lubes, which I usually don't like. But if you're doing any like blowjob or cunnilingus it's super, they're naturally derived from, they use all natural ingredients and it's the same, they're like hippie women. I think it's called half, half their aphrodisia.

They make awesome flavored lubes that are Mostly water waste with some oil. But those are really cool too because I love a flavored lube. You gotta be so careful if you can't read some of the ingredients. Be careful about what in there. Sugars and things. 

Dr. Willow: Hathor? Like the goddess?

April Lampert: I think it's the, I think it's hathor they're made in Canada.

I think it's hathor, they're women. They're awesome. They actually makes the tea as well. Okay. The thing is, legislation changed many years ago with the FDA and lubricants being imported into the United States.

So you have to be careful because a lot of companies couldn't afford to get their tiny lube companies certified. Cause it's hundreds of thousands of dollars. So we lost some really good companies years ago to that. But Uber Lube my go-to for everything. 

Dr. Willow: We love Uber Lube.

Leah: Yeah, we love Uber. 

Dr. Willow: On that note, we could be going on and on about sex toys, and Lubrications with April Lampert for hours. But we are at the top of the hour and a little bit beyond. So April, oh my gosh. We're going to have to have you back, girl. We just love you so much. 

April Lampert: I know. I love talking to you both.

You are so amazing. Thank you. Thank you for this. It's just felt like really natural. Like we're just chilling at home, having some tea and talking about life and sex. 

Dr. Willow: How we do it. 

Leah: I love it. I love it. Love it. So, please tune into the Shameless Sex Podcast with April and her bff, Amy. You've probably already listened to their podcast because they're very popular. 

Dr. Willow: It might even be how you found us and I keep hearing that.

Leah: Don't be afraid to go searching for our multiple episodes in their archives and we love you. 

Dr. Willow: Ciao. 

Leah: Ciao!

 

[01:09:46] April's Dish

 

Announcer: Now our favorite part. The dish

Leah: Dish time. Let's dish it up. Let's dish on 

Dr. Willow: April. It's going to be easy to dish on April because she is just so easy and playful and fun to connect with, especially around sexuality. I feel like she really takes this very taboo topic of sexuality and just turns it into something that is so natural and so easy.

I mean, the way anal fisting comes out of her mouth, like butta, you know, I mean, come on. You can do that. 

Leah: I know. I think it's so cool. I was really, it was really fun to sort of get this. You know, behind the door look at being this international sex toy spokesperson who goes to these various countries and stops in these shops and educates and delights these store owners and these educators, and going to these big conferences and these movers and shakers and having to really shift how she speaks, what she says, how she says it.

Depending on the country, the region, or even I imagine like different types of shops cater to different types of folks. And so you have to have a real wide range of understanding and be super relatable. I also thought it was really interesting that how much, you said the connection with the interpreter is important.

And the what they know and how they can convey like the whole rapport and that it's a real felt sense, intuitive process and I thought I would love to be a part of that process. I think I would've so much fun traveling the world, talking about sexuality and what people are looking for. And I can just imagine all the things I would learn along the way. I was like, I would love another way to just travel the world other than teaching workshops. As much as I love teaching workshops. Wouldn't it be nice for someone else to pay for it? 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, absolutely. There you go. 

Leah: Yeah, someone can pay for that flight and my time and I'm happy to wine and dine these international movers and shakers. I think that sounds like such a fun job. 

Dr. Willow: It is. It would be a fun job, for sure. April's been at it for, well, I mean, she started her career in the sex toy industry with her best friend Amy, who she does Shameless Sex Podcast with. And they had actually met in a restaurant, working in a restaurant.

They were in their twenties. And Amy was like, just pulled her in. She's like, you are going to manage my sex toys shop company, that I'm going to start with my mom. Which is just also such an amazing anomaly and story in and of itself. And so April was like, never thought she would be in the sex education industry, but here she is, nominated woman of the Year and she just, she's just such a love.

She just has such passion for it. I think it's really she's a passionate person in general and then she's found her way in this industry and has shined light on it in such a way that people have really like wow opened up their eyes. I think that really feeds and nourishes her on so many levels.

She even said at one point, even if I won the lottery, I think it's 2.2 billion at this point. Even if I won, I still would do this work cause so she really loved it. 

Leah: I think a lot of people who are in this industry, in one form or another feel passionate about it and it provides like really meaning and purpose and that's because when you see people overcome, their hangups about sex, and they start to have a more pleasure forward life.

You just see people that are, they're happier. And when you don't have to hold back so much, and it's kind of interesting because she talked about her family and not really coming from a super sex positive or even like affectionate positive, you know? Expressive family. Yeah.

And yet here she is in sort of this industry that's all based a lot on intimacy and pleasure and becoming free, you know? Because I think that they have a very robust kind of community regarding what people are navigating, regarding being pleasure forward, and the things that stop us from that, whether we're struggling with our gender.

Or our sexual preference or what turns us on and what doesn't turn us on, and whether we feel normal or abnormal about that even. I love the work that Hot Octopus does just in their research of making sure that they are targeting various communities to test their products. You know, people who are disabled.

It's just like the full range. I love how inclusive their message is as a whole. Absolutely. And that's a lot to learn. 

Dr. Willow: Absolutely. And it's it's something that really it takes sexuality to a whole new playing field. It just really normalizes it, it makes it more accessible, more approachable, and it makes it for everyone. Even those who are asexual, there's a place for you at our table, the shameless sex and sex reimagined, you know, whatever is really going on for you in your realm of sexuality. Whether you're feeling absolutely shut down and have no access to pleasure, or you are on a pleasure tangent and high in exponential expansion.

Leah: Or like, if you're not even interested in it and what's the big deal? You know, like, like, like there's nothing wrong, I think normalizing, whatever your story is, it's really important because I think it creates a sense of belonging. And there's so many reasons and ways that people feel isolated when it comes to who they get to be sexually or who they want to be sexually. And there's, it can be really lonely. When you don't fit into like the normal box and even if you do fit into the normal box, it can be extremely lonely. 

Dr. Willow: And because what the hell is normal anyway? It's different for everyone. 

Leah: And I think too, like I think that's what's so cool just about the podcast industry is that people can start to tune in and find things that maybe they wouldn't want to be so public about as they get their feet wet and they start to find that comfort zone. So that we can be more open and transparent and have these kinds of conversations because we still have a long way to go.

I mean, even our talking about like the conversations like her brother who's helping the illustrate coloring book versus the conversations that she's trying to have with her mom that, a lot of our family members are still going to shut those conversations down. We're not at a place where everyone is openly talking about sexuality, but we'll get there.

Dr. Willow: And in the meantime it's safe to just listen, if you're not ready to talk about it. It's safe to just, listen in your car by yourself or put your earbuds in and go for a walk and just tune in and open your mind and just absorb. Just to receive possibilities and ideas and expand what you consider even sexuality to be.

I mean, there is a whole world beyond penis vagina penetration is what we have sort of all grown up as is this heteronormative what we think sex is and there's so much more beyond that. And so that's what this podcast is about. That's what Shameless sex is about. And it's been such blessing and a fun ride to be collaborating with these gals, to be on their podcast, to have them on ours.

And we will continue to swap back and forth cause we just, we have so much respect for each other and really value what the others are doing. 

Leah: Really kind of fun parallel realities going on. And, you know, it's interesting hearing her say, you know, I really was never into the woowoo wasn't quite sure how to talk or fit in like with the whole tantra world and that's been big in Santa Cruz for decades now.

So I tend to, it's not that I forget that people might be uncomfortable with our professional choices, in terms of like what we specialize in and what we would consider being experts in from a field, I guess, per se. When I do hear feedback, like someone wasn't sure how to fit in or how to flow into the conversation or really wasn't sure if that was for them or I'm not sure how she said it, but like there's a certain feeling that conveys, I'm not sure this is where I belong.

And I'm always wondering, like, I wonder what I could do better or different to support that feeling more normalized or more comfortable or like, it's not always what you think it's going to be. It's not always woo. Or maybe sometimes it is depending on who's speaking about it from their heart, who's teaching.

But I just like to like talk about the conversation. It's really not about, I hope it doesn't come off as like pressing my agenda or my beliefs or thoughts or overly trying to inspire someone to do things the way I think they should. I don't know. I'm really, that's a great, I just want people to feel comfortable about that.

Dr. Willow: No, totally. I think, I definitely think, I know from experience on both sides of the equation, like when somebody's really in their sexual power and their sexual sovereignty and another person isn't, hasn't gone through the gauntlet to get to that point, the one who's in their sexual power can feel very intimidating, right?

And if you're standing up and you're teaching about it you have to step into that level of confidence. I mean, hopefully you really, truly have it, but even if you're kind of faking it till you make it, that's what you do to actually portray the information and the energy of this is what it can look like for you too.

But it can also intimidate the fuck outta people and and shut them down even more. So I think there really is like this balancing point where, and I already know Leah, that you read a room really well and you do that really well. I don't think there is anything that you personally could do more. But for other sex educators out there, I think there is a way where you can really read to who are you teaching to and what is their level of comfort.

You can see it in their body language. Are they expanded and open or are they wrapping in hunching their shoulders and in this more shut down position. So really just looking at someone's nervous system. 

Leah: Like, who's asking questions versus who's really, really quiet and looking comfortable.

Dr. Willow: Yeah. And then turning it, turning the tables so that it's like an inquiry for them so that they can be curious, so asking questions like how is this landing for you? Like, what does this feel like in your body? What's the sensation that you're having? And not to put anyone, if it's a class, like a big class, not to put anyone on the spotlight, because that could shut them down even more.

But you know, if you're one-on-one with someone, definitely asking what, how's it feeling? Like, what's the sensation of this to you? 

Leah: Well, even that can be a little intimidating, right? It's like, oh, it, depending on how many people are also listening. It depends if it's a, if it's a really intimate, small one-on-one or two on three, and they're trusted people in the space that, that really is helpful in terms of helping people be a part of the conversation. I do try to, add my personal stories, to try to normalize that this continues to be awkward for me and I'm not perfect. And I'm got as many hangups and issues as everybody else. That's really, and it's an ongoing process. So that there isn't a, oh, you know, that hierarchy thing. I want, I want to support all of us being in this together. Not necessarily I may have more information or I might have gone through more processes, but I'm just as awkward as everyone else and I try to use my personal stories to demonstrate that.

To create a sense of, hey I'm just like you and you're just like me, hopefully. Versus what I don't, what I sometimes I feel nervous about when I share personal stories is that I'm not really trying to talk about myself. As much as I'm trying to be in like demonstrating an inclusiveness of like, Hey.

Dr. Willow: Well, the brain definitely... 

Leah: I may look like sometimes, a professional, but I'm still a baby wanting to get love right. And get sexy right.

Dr. Willow: Just exploring. Yeah, exactly. And the brain really learns from stories too. So I know as a student of yours, that those stories really support the possibility, the opening of the mind of what is possible.

Oh, she had that story, she had that experience, and those are the things you remember later on. Not so much the techniques and the breath work and the da da blah. All the meditations, like you might, if you're a studier like me, you might remember them, but if you're, just kind of like trying to check into this Tantra thing and figure it out.

You're going to remember your teacher's humanness. 

Leah: Their vulnerable stories. 

Dr. Willow: Even if you think about your teachers in school, it's the ones who like, my physics teacher, I'll never forget, like threw an egg across the room at a sheet that two people were holding up and like, that's the kind of stuff that we remember.

We don't remember the fucking formulas. The brain wants connection. To feel like we are synonymous with that person and so you're actually fantastic at doing that. 

Leah: You know, she was telling that story about the labia tear and being at a Phish show, and I was like, I didn't mention like a added parallel.

I'm like, of course, I totally toured with Phish. Didn't have the labia tear but definitely toured with Phish. 

Dr. Willow: Oh, okay. Fish toured. No labia tear for Leah. Oh good. Thank God. No sex injuries, never fun. Never fun. No, no, no. All right. So let us know what you thought about this episode.

Rate it and give us a comment because we are on the rise and we want more and more people to hear this. So that's going to help. Everyone out there hear this? 

Leah: Yes. take three seconds right now on your app, whichever you're streaming on, and give us thumbs up and subscribe and do all the things. And if there's a place to leave a comment that really, really, really matters.

So we can't wait to hear your comment of support. Love, love, love, and we'll see you on the flip side.

Announcer: Thanks for tuning in. If the hosts seem to know what they were talking about, that's because they do. Leah Piper is a Tantric sex master coach and a positive psychology facilitator. Dr. Willow Brown is both a Chinese and functional medicine doctor and a Taoist sexology teacher. Don't forget your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter.

Announcer: Let's realize this new world together.