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Reimagine Dating



[00:00:00] Introduction | Reimagining Dating


Leah: Welcome, welcome. It is your favorite Tantra and Taoist experts, Leah and Dr. Willow. And today we are Reimagining Dating. 

Dr. Willow: Oh, there's so many different ways to date in the world today. We've got online dating, we've got app dating, we've got still the old fashioned way, meeting people in a bar, dating, and then there's non-monogamy, and then there's polyamory, and then there's monogamy.

Oh my God. I mean, the list goes on and on. 

Leah: Yeah. Yeah. And what's really funny, you're going to really enjoy this part because we get to have an inside look into Dr. Willow's dating life and all of the unique, interesting, fun ways that she's exploring herself, her sexuality, and her falling in love when it comes to dating.

So this is a juicy one you guys. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. Yeah. We'll see you there. Enjoy love, love. 

Announcer: Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show. 

Leah: We got a doozy for you today. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. We're going to have fun talking about the love life. 

Leah: Are you prepared to reimagine dating?

Cause that's what I'm doing's we're going. That's right. We are in the love lab today and we are going to be fully swimming through the very fascinating, very fun, very interesting life of Dr. Willow Brown out the world. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. So I'm practicing non-monogamy for the first time in my life and really standing in that really claiming that. You know, I was talking to one of my groups of women that I lead the other day and I was just saying, I've been in these long-term monogamous relationships over and over throughout my life, and I always attract the jealous partner. 


[00:01:57] Non-monogamy, Jealousy, and Trusting the Mystery


Dr. Willow: And it's so f-ing hard for me because I don't have an experience of being jealous of my partner. So I've never really experienced jealousy inside of a relationship, which I know is very unusual. I have experienced envy. My envy is usually aimed toward other women who are doing better in business than I am.

So I know the feeling of it and I know the pain of it because that one's really been a big one for me. But as far as jealousy, so my jealousy wound is always like, well let me not talk about how amazing my connection was with this other person so I don't trigger their jealousy.

So I hold these parts of myself back. Because I'm naturally just like, whoever I'm with, that's who I'm with and I'm in love with them, and I'm in the moment with them. And and so I've had to really quell that over the years. So now I'm healing that jealousy wound. And so what I was saying to my group of women was, I was always being accused of like, you always want to run off with every cowboy you meet. 

And I was like, oh yeah, me and the Cowboys. 

Leah: Did someone actually say that to you? 

Dr. Willow: Yes. My very first partner. Six and a half years. And that was kept coming up again and again. My girlfriends would be like, what is he talking about Cowboys for? 

Leah: Right. what the fuck is up with the cowboys?

Dr. Willow: But the reality is it's not like I want to run off with every cowboy I meet. But I want to be present with each person that I'm with without having some construct or some limitation put on me because I'm in a relationship with somebody else, or because I love somebody else. I believe that the more you love, the more there is to love and the more love that's flowing through your life, the more you love people in your life.

Leah: Oh God, that's what all the poly people say. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, well, maybe I'm a poly person. I don't know. I'm still discovering. But I love it. 

Leah: That's really sweet actually. 

Dr. Willow: I don't want to put a limitation around it. 

Leah: Okay. So yeah, you are adventuring into the world of non-monogamy and you haven't really been bit by the jealousy monster in terms of it kind of chewing on you towards others, but you have been the recipient of some issues with other people being jealous. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. And you know, what I was saying to my group of women is, maybe it's time for me to claim that I do want to run off with every cowboy, you know. That I do. 

Leah: Be that cowgirl. 

Dr. Willow: That I just want to ride. 

Leah: Wrangle them cowboys. 

Dr. Willow: Whenever I want to. Within the realm of safety and within the realm of integrity, of course, with whomever I'm making agreements with. But so far, It's feeling like, wow, this is a better arena. 

Leah: You had a lot of really fantastic experiences so far. 

Dr. Willow: It's a much better arena for me to be playing in and like I said, it opens up this whole channel and portal of love inside of me, inside of my life.

And it can be hard for some of my lovers to be like, why don't you just want to be with me? And can't I just have you? 

Leah: Oh, have you been having to have those conversations? 

Dr. Willow: Oh, yeah. I'm not really for "having". There's no "having" here. Like just the experience is what we're going for.

And you and I have a mutual girlfriend she was asking me for some advice around this and she's like, well, there's this guy and that guy and this guy, and how do I think about how all these different relationships are going to work in my life? And I was like, well, you're way ahead of yourself. So far, none of these are relationships. They're all just experiences. So, pull it back, like stay with the thread you're on. I think that's an important thing. 

And I haven't studied non-monogamy or polyamory. I've always been like this to polyamory. Oh really? 

Leah: Oh yeah. You were not into the poly bandwagon at any point until now. 

Dr. Willow: No, I think it's just the word and the stigma around it. And those "poly people", I've had just kind of a lot of judgment because I'm in Santa Cruz and Maui where there are these big poly communities. Right. And people can be really thin, you know, really out of integrity and like really just like, leaky with sexual energy.

Leah: And I actually really like the non-monogamy word because I hear you say that quite a bit in lieu of Poly and it has less of a charge. Yes. I like that term. I always like to open relationship as well. And monogamish I've always liked. But poly does have like a charge to it.

Dr. Willow: One of the things that when I think about like a polyamorous relationship that just is an absolute no for me is, well, at this point so far, who knows what the future holds. But is like I'm in a primary relationship with you, then I've got this secondary relationship and then I have a tertiary one, and then maybe I have some other lovers on the periphery.

To me, that's way too much fucking work. Like there's no way I would have time or energy for for all of that. I barely have enough time for one lover, you know, at a time. 

Leah: For real. 

Dr. Willow: That's why I like the non-monogamy word better as well. 

Leah: It doesn't have a hierarchy associated with it.

Dr. Willow: Yeah. It even keeps it in this experiential realm, you know, even though I'm playing primarily with one person as sort of my primary right now, and then other lovers kind of coming through. And I'm not looking for them or trying to create this, it's just sort of happening. And I think that having that label of non-monogamy is just allowing for the love to just be what it is without labels really, without calling it whatever we're calling it. Though language does really help us kind of solidify and get clear about, you know, what's okay and what's not okay. And so of course we've got these agreements within the me and the primary person. We've got these agreements of what's okay and what's not okay. And then it's all about, like for me right now, it's about healing that jealousy wound. Being able to go to that person and say, okay, I did have an experience with somebody else and I'm super nervous or a little bit nervous, or whatever it is, I'm having resistance to telling you about it because I don't want to trigger jealousy in you. Because I don't want to deal with that reaction in you.

And then when that reaction doesn't come forward, when he is like, oh, I feel kind of neutral, thanks for telling me. You know, and I'm like, wow, this is amazing. So it's really, it's experiential and new for both of us.

Leah: I think there's so many nuances to the whole non-monogamy conversation.

I kind of want to like press pause on that part of it, for just a minute. Because there's so many layers, there's so many places to go. It'll probably be like a three part episode. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, it's true. 

Leah: You know, and we do plan on having lots of experts on the topic because we want to be as informed as possible about all the various methods out there that people have discovered really work.

Because it's a valid path, as is monogamy, you know? 

Dr. Willow: Absolutely. 

[00:09:42] Leah: It's important that we realize we don't have to put too many boxes around ourselves, that there's a way to live life fully, sexually, and romantically from a real place of your heart's desire. Not just like some things are left off the table because I think that's so limiting.

Leah: So I think it's a really important subject. One of the reasons why I wanted to do this episode was speaking to our mutual friend and, you know, she does not seem like the open relationship type. Like I can see that it could be very painful to deal with too much jealousy or competition. I mean there's lots of layers that she may not have the fluidity that you do.

And so when we kind of,just like broaden and think about dating in general, right? Because everyone has their different motivations for dating. I've got this image of a dude who's just been like in the circuit of... what is it when they do that crazy dating... Pickup Artist, right? The whole pickup artist, like community. My husband had researched a lot of that at one point. And a lot of it seems like it's about conquest and confidence. You know, so sometimes they're like tallying up how many of the hot chicks can they hook up with now that they have this new confidence? Right? 

So I imagine a dude like that is kind of out on the field trying to have all the experiences, right? And then you've got, you know, I've got so many friends of different ages who so want to meet the beloved. The longing for the beloved is just agony, you know? And so they go on tons of shitty dates and they're never meeting them, you know?

And then if I were single, I would be approaching dating more the way you are approaching dating. I really love that period of singleness where I can date many people and no one is really pulling on my heart in such a way that I want to be exclusive. But I'm having lots of grand experiences and lots of love experiences, but no one's like landing into the beloved space.

You know, when you get that, I think it's just really natural for most people to want to lean into exclusivity, because they just are in the bubble, right? 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. And yes, it's true. And what's interesting for me personally about what you just said is, this primary person I'm with is landing in that beloved space.

And it's also not where we're at, either of us individually. So I have what I call man muses in my life, men who are inspirational men in the world, that for me, I'm like, oh, thank God there's a man like that in the world with that level of consciousness, that level of hotness, that level of just spirituality and what they're doing in the world and how they carry themselves.

And so I've had man muses in my life for years, and for a long time I had three main man muses, and I hadn't had any sexual encounters with any of them. At this point I've now had sexual encounters with all of them, and they have grown, I think I'm five or six now. And so, and then I've got my North Star Man Muse, which is this man.

Leah: Oh, what does that mean? 

Dr. Willow: Means he's my North star. Like if ever there was a man for me, that would be the one. Right. 

Leah: Really? 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. And so that's the one who I'm currently having this primary non-monogamous intimacy with. And something about the way that we are not grasping or trying to create something sooner than it's meant to be created or you know, reaching for security. I think there's this kind of false sense of security that comes with like, oh, now we're together, you know, . And so basically within that, there's an attraction within that. There's a hotness to that. That and especially that we can like ride that wave together and be on the same page together.

And having that sort of like, Template, that person, like that heart that's opening, that person who's in that beloved position, whether or not they become the person that I marry and grow old with. I have no idea because we're not on that thread yet. But the resident thread, that's what he calls it.

I'm like, where are we at? This is the resident thread, meaning like, if you're on this thread, don't jump to another thread before you finish this one. Because this one's going to lead into the next one and you might never even need to land on this one in the middle that like is going to trip you up. So there's a really important way of staying present to what is happening and sometimes you don't know what's happening, so it can be hard to be present to it. So being present to the unknown is a piece of the experience for me so far. 

Leah: Okay. So I guess if I were to translate that, what you're saying is, what's working between the two of you is you're on the same wavelength you're emotionally connecting at the same depth at the same time, which means like you're kind of falling for each other at the same kind of speed.

Right. I mean, is he really dedicated to this like, phase in his life where he is at, and this moment is about multiple relating as well? Or are you guys seeking the same thing and do you just have that in common? 

Dr. Willow: It's new for both of us. 

Leah: Okay. 

Dr. Willow: And it's interesting for both of us. 

Okay. And we're both practitioners. Practitioners of humanness, like on every level. So we're going into the deeper nuances of what it means to like, what if we're just built for non-monogamy? What if that's just who we are? 

And we've tried monogamous paths with partners before. Partners we really loved partners. We were really compatible with, partners that like, if we were normal people, we would've been perfectly happy in those relationships. But there was always something else that was like, there's something else. You know? And so now it feels like we're kind of like letting that something else take its own life.

Leah: Cool. Yeah. Yeah, I can see how the two of you are a good match for this current experiment. You guys are in the love lab and you speak the same language, and so you're really able to explore this with a lot of authenticity and you've built some emotional capital and it sounds like you guys are also kind of holding the whole experience in a really sacred way.

Dr. Willow: Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, it's good. It's running really deep through, through both of our lives right now, and I'm in a huge transition. And, you know, he's doing his building and creating and so, it feels good to also not be like trying to hold on or create something more than wants to come forth on its own.

That, you know, there's just, there's so much coming forward organically and there's this deep sense of trust. Like this really strong sense of faith that whatever is meant to unfold will, in whatever time it's meant to. And so I'm going on my path. 

Leah: Ding, ding, ding on that. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. Going to go and travel and going to Europe and I don't know when I'm coming back. I don't know if I'm coming back, you know, I have no idea what's going to happen.

And he's here and he's doing his thing. And so, there's like plans to like stay connected and see each other and co-create and travel the world and who knows, there's dreams for all of that, that we both share and there's not an attachment to it. 

Leah: Yeah. So it's like you can see a dream. You see the dream possibilities of actually really being together, and even though in the short future you won't be in the same towns, right? You're going to be traveling in your separate orbits, but those orbits have intention to re- collide. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. 

Leah: Yeah. And because those plans are like, you're not permanently moving away forever and ever.

Like you're just in the mystery right now and being a gypsy. Yeah. And so anything can happen. That's a really fun place to be in, in your life, isn't it? Are you just having a blast? 

Dr. Willow: I am for sure. Like, I'm so excited on so many levels and I get fucking scared sometimes too. 

Leah: Really? 

Dr. Willow: I'll mostly just be in my willow chill zone.

Like, okay, yeah. It's all perfect. It's all aligning, it's all working out, and so much gratitude and appreciation and love. 

Leah: Well, no, go back to the fear. I want to know what freaks you out. 

Dr. Willow: I'm about to get that. 

Leah: Okay, okay. 

Dr. Willow: And mostly I'll be in that state and then I'll like walk through a door and it'll just be like, whoa. It'll be like hitting a wall or something of anxiety of like, oh my god. Or like turning a corner in a, in my car. You know, just I don't know, it just comes in these really interesting moments and it's just... 

Leah: So what is that, is that just sensation or is there like a story behind it? Is it like, oh my God, how am I going to manage everything on my plate and being out of the country and running businesses and, you know, relationships? Like, what's the thought? 

Dr. Willow: I love that question. It feels like sensation at first. Just like, like, I don't know, just like, whoa, how, what am I doing? How is this going to work? I can feel the emotion, you know, like behind my voice right now. 

Leah: Yeah, totally. How's it going to work? 

Dr. Willow: Is this going to work? And I don't know, might not, but something will. And I trust that. I have faith in that. So then it's really just like a quick moment. And then it's like, I rearrange back to faith. 

Leah: Oh, you just gave me chills. I love that you're holding it that way. A, that you allow the overwhelm to rise to the surface, and then you step back into faith.

And it's a really hard human thing to do because we like certainty. And, you know, we like to be comfortable. And when you don't know how everything's going to play out... You're intentionally keeping it open and kind of staying in the wildness of it. Yeah, I bet that just kind of, it goes against our nature and yet... 

Dr. Willow: It totally does.

Leah: The wildness is also a part of our nature. So it's like you're really living "the both". You're not going, okay, I'm just going to stick to what's safe. You're allowing your adventure side to be in the driver's seat. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. And my soul has called for this for years and years and years, and I've been in the safety zone for years and years and years. And right now life is just pushing me toward the uncertainty, and the not knowing, and the exploration 

Leah: And the mystery makes my nipples hard.


[00:20:57] Creating with Sexual Energy


Leah: That's exciting. 

Dr. Willow: Me too. 

Leah: Like, God damn. 

Dr. Willow: It is exciting. And I was just talking to one of our followers today about, how sexual energy is the most potent creative energy that we have access to as humans. I mean, we create new life with it and we can create anything with it. We can create art, we can create businesses, we can create travel plans, we can create relationships. We can create anything with it. And so I think that, especially within a certain age range. we humans have been led to understand sexuality is either penis, vagina, or sex, or whatever, woman on woman's sex. It's the genitals, it's the orgasm. That's what sex is, you know? And if you open and expand and pull back and be like, oh my God, I just set up my very first personal retreat with a client going to the UK where we're going to go to the Celtic Sacred Sites and I'm going to do pelvic floor & Tantra with this amazing client. And really like, let that fill me up. That's sexual energy too. That is this effervescent creative life force that drives that part of my business forward. And it doesn't even feel like business. It just feels like soul calling. 

Leah: Yeah. That's beautiful. So one of the things I want to explore with you, because it really it struck a chord and I know it struck a chord with our friend too, because she's also, you know, in the dating world and the conversation that she had with you about this idea of, it's possible that where we're getting stuck in the dating world is that we are putting our attention and our focus on seeking a mate.


[00:15:37] Student Stories


Lisa McCardle: Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, there's many, let me pick the juicy one in this now moment.

I would say that when women are attracted to working with me, it's usually because they've come to a point where they've had a fair amount of success in their life, but they've done it from a way that didn't feel really authentic to their being. They did it from the kind of that masculine efforting and that working too hard and forgetting too much about the essence of who they are.

And they usually find me because they're tired and because they know that there is, there's more, and that they know that there's something fundamentally that no matter how much success they have, they're not satisfied. They're not satiated, they're not filled up. Because there's like this, there's this outside generation and then there's an inside connection.

And so women usually come to me because they know there's something missing, but they don't quite know what it is. And a lot of where we end up going is into the great remembrance that we're worthy because we exist, and how to stop generating from the mind and how to really get into the body, into the impulse, into the vibrational experience, into the remembrance.

Like we're coming from that mind egoic kind of masculine expression and moving into the feminine. So I'm just trying to pick which client is gonna give the best indicator. Okay. One of my longtime clients that I've been working with when she first came to me, she came out of a very religious sort of upbringing, a very good girl upbringing, a very, like the feminine has to serve the masculine and she has to work hard and she has to be perfect and she has to do all these things and all this outside kind of projection. And there was this like burning desire to be, to remember who she was without the outside imprinting.

And over the many years that I've been blessed to walk with her, she has come into her full her full channel, her full expression as an intuitive, as a healer. She's now serving thousands of people out in the world. She's an influencer. She's out there doing her things and doing it from a perspective of service of, this is the mission on the planet.

I don't have to be this. I don't have to become something outside of myself so that I can be loved. Like lens shift is I can be, I am love because I exist because I'm powerful af and I'm here for a mission. And so that outward projection, became an inward service. And from that, everything has poured out.

And it's just beautiful to watch. And it's also it's so fascinating when people that walk with you I mean, she's doing big stuff in the world, I'm like, go you ,and It's just really beautiful. It's beautiful to remember somebody to who they are, to the truth of their power, and to the remembrance that we're worthy because we exist and we do not have to prove for it any longer.


[00:22:56] Dating Differently


Leah: Yes. When, what if we shifted our attention to, instead of making the focus, I gotta find a mate, I gotta find a mate to I'm going to seek experiences. Yeah. And I know that the collection of the best experiences with somebody will likely open up into more and more and more with somebody. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. That's going to turn into a mate.

Leah: Yeah. So, let's explore that a little bit, because I think that's really interesting. I think that's a whole new reimagined way of going, especially if you've had a lot of frustration in dating. I mean, you don't have to have frustration in dating to think about switching this mindset. But if we were all to approach, or if most people were to approach, you know, experiences, experiences, how can I have the best experience possible on this date, regardless of who the person ends up being?

Maybe they'll turn into just a great friend, like an awesome soulmate, and maybe they'll turn into the next beloved for the next six months because you're supposed to do something really important, some piece of growth together. Right. Some kinda lesson together. And then maybe they'll be your fucking spouse who knows? 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. Or maybe they'll be the person you meet at the coffee shop two times and the second time they introduce you to their friends. Who happens to just walk by and then they're beloved, you know? Yeah. It's about you. And I feel like this is such an important conversation for those who do really live in a monogamous boned body.

Yeah. Cause there are a lot of them out there. And it can be a lot harder to to sort of have this mindset around like, I'm not just looking for a mate, I'm looking to practice with people. 

Leah: I love that. 

Dr. Willow: I'm looking to practice being in relationship, being in intimacy being in love with people.

You know, like my own love, like how big does my own love feel in my heart when I'm with you, Leah? You know, how big does my own love feel when I'm with my primary person? How big does my love feel when I'm with my dog? each person or dog is a potential practice partner.

And you practice different things with the different people that come in. Let's say if you're online dating and you're on Bumble or one of the apps or something. Even on the app, it's like that's your opportunity to practice how does it feel inside of your nervous system when you're looking at their profile?

Is it a, yeah, I feel open, I feel like excited? Or is it like, I'm not really sure, or is it an absolute I'm shutting down that's giving me anxiety? So looking for those clues inside of yourself, whether you're in person with someone or on an app or something, is going to give you so much more information about yourself.

And it's also going to build trust and confidence in yourself. 

Leah: I think that's really good advice, and I was even like playing with it in my own relationship, you know, seeking even more interesting, fun, valuable experiences with Matt. Because it's very, I think this is a tendency for women, is find the husband or the wife on our checklist, right?

And once we find the person that matches most of the qualities we need, and we do the wedding, and we do the thing and now we've got the house, then our attention wanders. And suddenly that person isn't the most important thing in the world anymore because you've got them. Right. the box has been checked.

So next, okay, what's the next thing on my list? Okay, have a family or, okay, get a promotion or okay, buy the house and now make the house a home. And suddenly our attention gets drawn somewhere else. You know, what's the next sparkly thing? I mean Matt and I've had conversations like that. You know, I just feel like, I'm not as important.

He's not the focus of my attention. And it makes me really kind of go, okay, well let me sit with that for a little bit. How can I bring more value to our experiences so that we continue to be enriched by them? And that's why I think this whole dating idea of going, I'm going to seek great experiences and it parallels with a belief I've had for a while.

And I know I've mentioned this on maybe some other episodes, but I had a student once who, after a seminar, we were talking and I said, so did you get value out of the program? And he's like, "well, of course I did. I get value everywhere I go. I create value for myself. I had a great experience. I don't expect you to create value for me. I expect me to create value for me." And it changed something so fundamentally hearing that and it has altered the way I look at everything I go to learn.

It's not about the delivery of the presenter. It's really about here is this amazing group of people that have gathered, and here's this incredible content, and now I'm going to create value from this. 

And so I hadn't really made the bridge between that and looking at dating, how can you bring value to every date you go on for you? You know, because I think we are testing often the person who we're on the date with.

Yeah. Are they going to be good enough? Are they going to meet all my expectations? Are they going to be the one, are they going to this, this, this, this... it's like, I want to have all this chemistry. And like, what if the best way to spend your time that night is creating value for each other, regardless of who the fuck they are.

Dr. Willow: Exactly. 

Leah: I mean you could at least try because some people go on dates and it's just fucking hell and they hate it. Yeah. And I wonder if this shift could really change one's experience? How can it not? 

Dr. Willow: How can it not? One way to tangibly create value for yourself and for the other person is to practice presence. 

And what is presence? Presence is really listening, not just with your ears, but with your whole body. So when you're really tuned in with somebody and you are listening to them talk about their dad, or their family, or their kids, or whatever. They're like, oh, my kids... and they're going through the story of their family. But underneath inside of your own body, you can feel that there's a disconnect between how they feel about their family and the story that they have of their family. And so you might probe deeper in a, in a very loving way and be like, oh, you know, I'm sensing, or I'm hearing you speak about your family in this way and I'm curious if your feelings are congruent? If your feelings are really this, that, or the other. Regardless of if that person becomes your future spouse or not, you're going to create a really valuable date with them. And you're going to be practicing a really valuable part of relating, which is listening.

I mean 90% of communication is listening anyway. So, not just with your ears, but with your whole somatic body. So, when I talk about listening with your body, dropping into your body, you want to pay attention to your nervous system. And your nervous system, two of the easiest ways to pay attention to that are your heart rate and your breath.

Those are two doorways into like what's going on with my nervous system. And then there's even more nuanced, I'm not going to go into it too much, but there's this sort of like closing in and this opening up. So looking for that contraction or that expansion. 

Leah: Am I opening or am I closing?


Dr. Willow: Yeah. And sometimes, I've been on some dates with people who I don't give a shit what they're talking about. I don't care. I'm not interested in them. I'm not attracted to them. I hope we don't go on another date. You know, I hope they don't call me again. You know,

I will tell them, I'll be like, you know, we're not meant to be, and God bless and good luck. But while I'm still there in their presence and I'm on that date with them, I can still practice being of value for them and practice, right relationship for myself and my future partner.

Leah: Well, how can you take a, like a date like that, right? Like there's no chemistry. They're boring you have to death. They're just like, they're into shit you're not into, it's just you'd rather take a nap right now, right? That's just the authentic truth. Yeah. How can you take a situation like that and then make it valuable for yourself?

Not just for them, but for you? is there a way? Certainly, you couldn't do this every time, but I'm wondering if there's a door to open that could turn that experience around so that you found value in it? 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. Well, doing exactly what I'm talking about, , which is like... 

Leah: Giving yourself a chance to practice a tool of some kind.

Dr. Willow: Exactly. What's the thing in your last relationship that was always coming up, like, you never listen to me, or you are always running off of cowboys or whatever, like, what was the thing that your partner was always accusing you of doing? And you know that you could do better with that.

Or you finally come to terms with like, okay, yeah, I do have a thing with that. Or you're not present, you know that was something that I would definitely say to some of my past relationships and so if they would actually be in that place of like, okay, yeah, I'm going to practice presence more. Now here I am with this person who I'm not interested in. I hope I never see them again, but I have an opportunity to really practice being present because why waste the moment?

Leah: I imagine too, like if you're someone who's had the disease to please and you're long suffering with things that you don't really want to do, and you keep on saying yes to those things, to be able to make the practice, I'm going to end this date early.

Yes. The best thing for me to find value for me tonight is actually to create less time with you. Yes, absolutely. I am going to not do the disease to please, I am going to go ahead and say, thanks for the cocktail, I won't be staying for dinner. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, perfect. I love that. And there's a lot of empowerment in that as well. Especially for women because we tend to endure, we do have the disease to please. We don't use our voices. Our voices get shut down from eons of generations and generations of shutdown for the female voice. So here's our opportunity. This is a practice. Now you're practicing not just for yourself, but for all of womankind, right? 

You're like actually practicing speaking up for yourself and using your voice and just being fucking honest because one time this happened to me and I'm sure it's happened to all of us, and it's like the person was like, You're so amazing. You're so wonderful. You're so great, and I don't want to see you anymore. And I was just like, huh, what? Incongruent. I don't get it. And it took me like, three weeks and I finally went back to that person, I was like, please just say you're not into me. Please, just say, you are just not into me.

And he's like, yeah, I'm just not into you. I'm like, okay, then I can let it go and I can move on it's easier for me to let it go. So I think there's this fear around being really honest with people, but it's so much kinder than just sugar coating shit. 

Leah: Just being self-depreciating, as your way out. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm at the point now, and I'm always encouraging my clients to just speak up, like, what's really true for you? And do it in a kind way, but just say something like, you're really wonderful person and I'm not feeling a vibe or a forward movement with you, so I'm just going to bow to you and say, good luck on your path, and I'm going to go my way and you're going to go your way. And that's it for us. 

Leah: Have a great life. Yeah. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. I mean, that's kind. Then they can be like, oh, okay. She's just not that into me. I wasn't saying like, you're really amazing and I wish I felt this way

Leah: Well, I also have some friends though that can be a little diva, like, and, it's like they don't give anybody a chance.

Holy shit. It's like, yeah. Oh my God. It comes up with every excuse imaginable not to really be there. I mean that's like the lack of presence. My God, like hang out for just a minute, stop the running judgments in your mind that is just running off the list of things that you can find wrong so that you don't have to be vulnerable, you don't have to take a risk, you don't have to let anybody in. The block is between you and love, because you have a way of shutting everyone down. And you're kind of nasty about it, on top of it all, you know? So there's that side of the feminine as well. No one's going to be good enough because they don't want to take the risk. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. Vulnerability is one of the scariest things that we encounter in intimacy. And intimacy is made up of trust, vulnerability, and presence. So when you get presence in place as a consistent constant practice, no matter who you're with, then vulnerability is not quite as daunting anymore because presence breeds trust in Self.

It breeds faith in Self. So, when you have that deep sense of trust and faith inside of yourself, then you can be vulnerable with whomever you're with. And if they shut it down, don't understand give some kind of like mean reply or whatever, you at least know your own truth and have faith in that for yourself.

Leah: Yeah. I think if you are the recipient of someone hurting your feelings, because they're just not that into you, when you stay in that place of like realness and presence and curiosity, then you don't have to make it about you either. Right. It can remain about them. Exactly. And it's not because there's something wrong with.

Dr. Willow: Yes, and that's huge. Huge. Because that's one of the biggest wounds that's why we hold so much down. 

Leah: Well it's half the reason why some people don't ever give anybody a chance is because at the end of the day the thing that's most buried is they don't want to be rejected. Exactly. So they'll reject you first. And then they never get to have the thing that they most want. 

Dr. Willow: And they're like, why don't I have the thing I want? Yeah. Yeah. And it's a rocky road and, you know, for anyone out there who's like, yeah, I'm kind of stuck in that wash cycle, just, it's okay. It's okay. And just having understanding and knowledge about it is really your first step out of that spin cycle.

And then just being really patient with yourself and being really present to your process and your evolution, because it's not just like a amazing forward momentum. Like, oh yeah, I know I have this knowledge and here I go up the top of the mountain. You know, we have to trial and error and kind of try it on for size, and where is my voice and what does it sound like when I speak it up, when I'm really not interested in someone, or when I really am. When I'm like, wow, my God, I love your heart, and my heart is opening and that scares the crap out of me. You know? That kind of direction with your vulnerability is equally valuable. 

Again, whether or not it turns into a marriage and you die in bed next to each other or not, it's still really valuable for your relationship with you, or self, as an intimate partner. 

Leah: I'm really curious what people who are really wanting love how they're experiencing this episode right now.

I'm trying to think back of like, okay, how would I be feeling? It wasn't that long ago that I was single and wanting to bring in the Beloved. And I didn't, marriage wasn't on my mind, but I was open to it. I wanted a life with somebody. And had been poly for a long time. I'd done the open relationship thing for a long time, and it was for me, chaotic and challenging and filled with a lot of drama and just, it was exhausting. It was just too much damn work. So it had left a bitter taste in my mouth, except for when I'm just dating.

If I'm just dating. I love it. It was so fun having multiple people in my life to do fun things with and to play with my sexual energy with. And then, you know, the beloved steps in. And I just want to be with him. He's the one that I can't stop thinking about, that I want to spend all this time with. And just the natural occurrence of wanting to be exclusive and then wanting to go deeper and deeper. 

So I remember the in between phase of feeling burned by the open relationship piece, dating and having a ton of fun, not being exclusive. But being very clear that what I was aiming for was an exclusive relationship.

And there was one guy who, we were so well suited in so many ways, but there were a couple pretty key areas that we weren't a match. And one of those areas was he had always been monogamous and now he wanted to explore non-monogamy. And as we were kind of falling for each other, I knew that I did not want to explore non-monogamy.

I wanted to have more of a monogamous thing. So we just weren't a match there. I mean I could not argue with his desire. If I were him, I would've felt the same way. But I had already done all of that. So I felt like I got it outta my system, so I wasn't invested in changing his mind. Right. I think when you try to change someone out of their truth and what they really are looking to explore, it's just going to land you in a lot of trouble.

You know, it's going to create resentment and all sorts of stuff can breed from that. So I wasn't interested in convincing him to feel differently. But I was pretty disappointed. And so what I did with that relationship is we would practice Tantra and there's a practice called Sex Magic. Before we made love, we would call in the partner that I did want.

Because, you know, he was into having multiple relationships, so why shouldn't I be purposeful with this one. Right? To call in the type of relationship that I really wanted. And that's how I pulled in Matt. So we used our sexual energy to call in the things that we most wanted. I can't remember what he wanted.

Dr. Willow: I'm sure doesn't matter. 

Leah: I'm sure he had a desire but I was very centered on mine. Alright. And it was awesome. I love having been single and being intentional. Yeah. With the people that I'm dating. It's like we can have a fabulous time,, we can enrich each other's life. Yeah., We can do all sorts of fun things, we can really explore the places that we are a good match and we can really be loving and honest about the places that we're not. Yes. And we just allow... We allow each other to affect each other in the most positive way. Yes. During the time that we get to dance. And sometimes that might be one date, other times it could be multiple years.

Leah: And then those people can remain good friends if you have the bandwidth to hold multiple possibilities at once. 

Dr. Willow: Are you still friends with that one? 

Leah: Yes, but we've kind of lost touch a little bit and I have some guilt over it. Because I've always held this value, like I'm a lifer, I'm a lifelong friend. Like once I commit to you, you got me your whole life. Right? 

And I kind of grew up with that. My parents both have lifelong friends. It's just like this thing that was passed down to me somehow. And it's pretty rare that I haven't stayed consistent with people. But I think as I've gotten older, I don't actually need to be lifers with everyone. Like I've readjusted that value. It turns out that's a lot of pressure. 

Dr. Willow: Well, it's a lot of bandwidth for sure. 

Leah: Yeah. It's a also, like, it makes me in charge of keeping the friendship alive and connected. And I don't mind playing a bigger role in many cases with that. I'm good at it. I've had good role models for that. And I travel a lot, so it makes seeing people a lot easier when you're not in somebody's orbit, it's hard to stay in touch. 

So I promise to be a lifer to this person, right at the point in my life when I realized, I don't know that I can keep promising that. I don't know that's a promise I can keep, so I probably need to have that conversation because I'd like to be in touch. Yeah. I just can't. I think I feel guilt that I'm not living up to a promise, which I think has created some avoidance for me. 

Dr. Willow: Interesting. 

Leah: Cause I feel guilty. 

Dr. Willow: I think there's some reimagining just to that piece right there, you know? Just the perspective shift of it's likely that a lot of this guilt that you're holding onto is all only coming from your own mind and the other person is probably not sitting around going, like, Leah is not holding up her ending the bargain.

Leah: For sure. I don't think there's any hard feelings whatsoever from this friend. I think it's me feeling like I broke my word or I'm not living up to my word. It's me and my own integrity that I'm wrestling with. And as a result, I'm robbing myself of a sweet, wonderful friend and connection by not pursuing it. So, I'm aware of that too. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. So maybe it's like a, it's a recommitment around what that means to be a lifer for you. Like maybe it's a different definition and maybe there's a conversation that needs to happen with this person. 

Leah: I mean, not at this point. I just want to hear their voice and say, what the fuck you've been up to, man?

Dr. Willow: Yeah. Exactly. And just like catch up. 

Leah: And I don't even think that anything needs to be cleared except for within my own heart of just forgiving myself to go. Yeah, you can't live up to that promise anymore. Yeah. And you still feel a desire to see this friend, visit with this friend, catch up with this friend.

I don't have to live up to the, my own expectations in my mind, those expectations can change. Yes, that's what I've been feeling. 

Dr. Willow: I love it. Love it. 

Leah: Guilt and shame I'm not living up to my own personal promises. 

Dr. Willow: Well, you're not alone there, right? Oh my goodness. Well those relationships, they're such important, integral relationships.

I mean, that was the person you were practicing with to call in your monogamous beloved, yeah, and now you've been married to Matt for I think five years and, you know, it worked. Like the energy between the two of you was so potent and so strong and while it felt like, oh my God, you could be that one, the alignment wasn't there.

Right? And so instead of just being like, let me just throw it away because the alignment's not there, you utilized it to create and... 

Leah: totally harnessed and leveraged. Yeah. 

Dr. Willow: And that is a beautiful thing. And I think that, you know, for those who live in monogamous, naturally boned bodies, there's also a perspective shift that could happen where it's not so much of like, okay, they're not what I want.

They're not what I'm calling in. Let me just turn it off. Instead, there might be an opportunity to be like, well, let me see how much I can grow or expand my capacity to be able to let the Chi that's between the two of us, that's co-created between the two of us, into my life. So that I am using that potent sexual energy to magnetize, to use sex magic, to call in, to manifest however you want to put it, what you do really want. So getting clear, and for those who are not clear about what their desires are, it's going to be harder to do that. 

So, Getting really clear about what it is you do desire. And I have clients all the time who come with this issue where they're like, I don't know if I want monogamy or a non-monogamy.

I'm not sure if I want a man or a woman. I just don't know. but there's this person and there's that person, and the lack of clarity can drive a person cuckoo. So you can also use all of these different connections that you have with different people to figure out your clarity, to figure out that path to clarity.


[00:48:43] Energy of Love vs the Emotion of Love


Leah: So, you know what this is reminding me of, and I wonder how much you use this in your own personal life right now with dating? Is the energy of love versus the emotion of love. 

Dr. Willow: I use it alot. 

Leah: I want to do a whole episode on this, but we could talk about it briefly now. Yeah. Do you want to describe the concept?

Dr. Willow: Sure, yeah. I mean, I use it a lot. You describe the concept and I'll tell you how I'm using it. Okay. 

Leah: So if you think about the energy of love and how it's different from the emotion of love, the energy of love is this natural renewable resource, okay? The energy of love is like universal love, so you can give it away so freely, like energy of love costs you no big emotional damage.

It's your curiosity. So, super simple example of the energy of love is running into a stranger at the market and they just dazzle, right? Like they look so beautiful and they have captured your attention and you just can't help but say, my God, you look beautiful. What? Your hair is so gorgeous, or Those earrings match your eyes.

I, you don't know what it is, but you just, hey, you have to give them a compliment. Because it is just filling you. So that's the energy of love in a simple way. You know, like when you see a really cute puppy on the sidewalk and you can't help, but you have to say hello to the lovely doggy. Like that's the energy of love, right? It's a love that doesn't belong to you, but you have access to it. 

Dr. Willow: It's like eros. 

Leah: Yes. It's totally eros. And then you have the emotion of love and the emotion of love. Yeah. That's that's come straight from your body. The emotion of love you is kind of contractual. The emotion of love is best handled when there's an agreement, an exchange for the emotion of love.

So you can think about, you know, the people who you have the emotion of love with would be family members. Old lovers. New lovers, like they're the people who really matter. The emotion of love you should give to people who you're willing to fucking get therapy with. They're, that relationship is that important to you.

You know, like you're going to do, you're going to grow from that relationship. You're going to put your all into that relationship. It really matters. They really matter to you. You go to their parents' funeral, you know what I mean? That's the emotion of love. And so I think in the dating world, and this was something I had to be really careful of, when I was dating -I'll call him Kay... 

When I was dating Kay. It was the emotion of love, kept on knocking on my heart. And it was like, you know, you want to love 'em, you know you want to love 'em. And I would go, yeah, I really want to open up that door. I gotta check in with him first. And I would just let 'em know, look, the emotion of love, it just keeps on knocking for my attention. I want to check in with you about how you're feeling about the emotion of love. 

And, you know, he would; I love you so much and I can't give you this. You know, so it was really clear that he knew what I wanted and he would redirect to say, and I'm not prepared to give that to you and I love and adore you and I have so much fun with you.

So we stayed in the realm of the energy of love I would just keep that heart, that door had to remain closed. I would just tell my heart it's okay to want this, but it's not available to you now. So I didn't have to have a heartbreak. Right with this person who I really wanted to fall in love with. 

Dr. Willow: Right.

Leah: I allowed myself, when I was getting the ooh la la's, I reminded myself, this is oxytocin, this is testosterone, this is, these are the opioids body. Yeah. Like these are just hormones flooding your brain, making you feel this way. That doesn't mean it's true. You get a choice, you can either choose to go into the motion of love or you can choose to stay in the energy of love. And it has really served me. 

Dr. Willow: Oh, it's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant in this story. It's exactly what I'm going through right now. And you know, it's like the energy of love, it's a spiritual thing. So it's a higher, it's more, effervescent, it's lighter, it's easier to flow in and out.

It's like the bamboo, the hollow bamboo, like the energy of love can just flow through you and you don't get super attached. And than the more personal emotional of love. It's more physical. Like it's the body. It's more earth based. Right. So we've got heaven and earth that we're dealing with. 

Leah: Slam into you.

Dr. Willow: Yeah. And it can take you down if. 

Leah: It can take you down. Yeah. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. But I love how you said you have choice. 

Leah: You have choice. 

Dr. Willow: You have choice and you kept being vocal, and honest and vulnerable with this person to find out what was true for them, because it's so easy. When hearts are opening and things are happening to start getting into that swoon place, you know?

Like, oh, you know, and you just fall. You're just going there. And it feels fucking good too, it's good medicine for the whole body. 

Leah: Totally. Because we were both feeling like, you know, those dips in the belly, where your heart just feels like it's going into your belly. And like there'd be excitement and you get all the body feels, you know?

Yes. And we would have really open conversations like, yeah, I'm feeling that too. 

Yeah, I'm feeling that too, but this is a place that we're probably going to break up over and be hurt by, you know? Yeah. We had these couple of areas that weren't lined up, and so we would remind each other of that. And still enjoy the feelings. Yeah. But consciously choose not to make a story out of them, not to make a future out of them. Yeah. 

Not to obligate the other person, you know? And it was always a good conversation talking about this. 

Dr. Willow: Oh yeah. And it almost makes you love the person more. It allows more energy of love to flow through your life even more.

Leah: Totally. Definitely respect. 

Dr. Willow: Definitely and there's you most likely had to be in a very strong state of presence with your emotion of love and with that other person in order to navigate that whole journey. 

Leah: Well, you know, I was, I am really committed to taking really good care of myself. So for me it was, I'm going to really be responsible for myself in this path to love.

I'm not going to set myself up to just suffer. I'm going to do this with the intention of dating people who are wanting to be as conscious or close to conscious as me. Like who are in the pursuit of wanting to leave each other better than the way we find each other. That's who I want to spend my time with.

And I had to introduce these concepts to people because most people don't study this shit for a living. I do. 

Dr. Willow: That's right. Yeah. 

Leah: And they're better for it. So, I mean, I think this is part of the reason why we should all be listening to podcasts and taking courses and so that we can be, so we can take really good care of our hearts and the hearts of other people.

Yeah. I mean doesn't it feel shitty when someone is falling in love with you and you're not falling in love with them? It can be so confusing. But if you had a tool to go, here's the thing, I really enjoy connecting with you, and I feel you wanting to fall, and instead of falling, what would it be like? If we could both just float. Yeah. Let's not, fall, let's float. Yeah. Are you available, this is what I'm available for in the floating. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I don't want you to be devastated. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. And there takes a real honesty with each individual person in order to be like, well, I'm actually not available to float in that space with you because I just really want you. Like, I really am in love with you, and I just love you, and I just want you. 

Leah: How can I change your mind?

Dr. Willow: Are you sure? Like every time. And so there comes a point from the other person's side where the kind thing to do is to just say, I really enjoy you too, and it doesn't seem like you're able to just float in this energy of love with me. I can feel that the emotion of love is taking over and wanting so much more than I am able to give. So I'm going to step back and I'm going to love you from a distance and we're going to take some space and you know, it's time for you to go out and look for somebody who is available for what you actually want. 

Yeah. And now that you've had this experience with me and you've seen like what you actually want, you've gotten that clarity around all these aspects of how you want to feel when you're with somebody. And the attributes that you want your person to have, you have a lot more clarity around what you're looking for, so it'll be easier to find it, it'll be easier to magnetize it into your life. That's why no relationship, whether it's one single coffee date or like two or three years long is wasted in my mind.

I don't think any of it's wasted, if you know how to use it all as information and navigate it in a way that you get to become, like you said, Let's leave each other better than we found each other. Yeah, I love that. 

Leah: I have to say when I really was ready to like seek out the Beloved, the one that I wanted to do as much of life with as possible.


[00:58:26] The BE List - What your Partner already has to BE. 


Leah: It really helped that I'd done Alison Armstrong's some of her courses. I really want to encourage people to take a look at I think it's her Lux Program now. She's rebranded a lot of things. The course I took was Men in Marriage and she had, she really helped you and it's not called that anymore, I think it's not called Love and Commitment.

And she helps you identify. Like your list, right? Like here are your preferences, like, and then here are your values and how you feel about them. 

So for instance, the Be list. They have to be this or I'd rather be alone. Right? And that was really helpful. So I went through all these categories of going like, What do they have to be or else I'd rather be alone.

Right. You know, you can't just wait for someone to be honest. Like, I need someone to be honest, to come with honesty. Because then there's some things that they may not be that yet, but they can grow into it. But honesty is one of those things, like for me, you have to come with that.

Dr. Willow: Yeah, exactly. The person needs to have that already. Yeah. And so yeah, knowing that BE list. And of course there's then also just someone's nervous system and someone's energy and how you feel when you're with them. So not getting too attached to any lists, but Yes. Right.

Things like honesty, integrity on that list are you know, attributes in the other that need to be in place for you, or it's a deal breaker. It's not going to work. 

Leah: Yeah. Like I need someone to be really into my body. Yeah. You know, I just need that, I need someone to think that I am the cat's meow.

I'm sorry, but I really, I don't need to be as attracted to them, but I need them to be attracted to me. You know, like that's something that I want and I don't want to live without it. 

Dr. Willow: I love that you said that, because I think that that is true for a lot of women especially, but not claimed. And there's no fucking shame in claiming that. Like that they need to be really attracted to you, into your body because then you feel sexy in their hands. In their arms. You feel like you are desired, that Goddess, the queen of the moment and that is what keeps libido and sexual energy and drive alive a lot longer. 

Leah: Well, and I dated a lot of guys who really loved who I was, but didn't love my body as much. And that was really fucking brutally painful.

Yeah. I'm like, thank you, I love that you love who I am, but that's not going to fuck me at the end of the night. 

Dr. Willow: Right. 

Leah: So, you know, it's interesting. It's not about being, I think, crystallized in these lists, because I think we get to emphasize on lists, but to really understand like, these are my non-negotiables.

And if I could have it all my way, Here's what I most desire. I want a guy who loves to travel. I want a guy who loves his family. I want to someone who's not super religious, but is spiritual. I want someone who's has some financial intelligence. You know, to be able to really explore having had experiences thus far in life and learned a thing or two.

We all start to collect things we don't really want to do again. And then I think that's good information. I really liked the way she held that content of the course so that you could, A, see where you were being kind of obnoxious and then also see what was really true. And it just helped me magnetize so much easier the men that I really wanted to surround myself with. Yeah. It made me visible to them and it made them visible to me. Otherwise, I think I would've just spun for more and more years not really having what I was hoping to have. Cause I hadn't identified it. 

Dr. Willow: Right. So that's really good information what you just said for all of our listeners who are still in the dating world. Have been for a long time. Starting to get jaded about this whole dating thing. Look back and which experiences about this person and what about that person ,was really highlighted for you and like, wow, they really loved my body and they had the financial smarts and they had a good relationship with their mom.

You know, all these different pieces that really worked for you, like make that your BE list. They need to be these things, they need to have these things, need to come with these things. I'm not going to teach them or evolve them. Right? They're coming with these things already. 

Leah: And then what are the things that they can grow into that's not an unreasonable adventure for someone to want to grow into, you know?

Right. I could've attracted someone who didn't have a close relationship to their family, but wanted to be close to mine. Right. And that was a distinction that I would be okay with. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, it's interesting. I have a girlfriend who is like, I hear her say it all the time. Oh he is really great, da da da. But he hasn't traveled that much. He's not that worldly. That's really important for her that they come with that. And I love the travel worldly guy too, but I am totally fine if they evolve into that, they don't need to come with that for me. 

Leah: So, right. Travel was high on the list. They have to have the same enjoyment of travel. But Matt hadn't really traveled a lot. So that was something we went and had an adventure to see, well, how will he do on trips? Like can he, will he hate it? Does he complain the whole time? Cause I dated one guy who smoked and so it was so hard for him to travel because you can't smoke on an airplane. So he was always super moody. And I could live with that as long as he was good for the rest of the trip. Uhhuh. 

But you know, to have Matt just like come alive. Now he's never excited about the trip until he is on the flight. I know I can't expect him to be into the planning and to get excited about going.

Okay. But I can always rely on him to be on the airplane and be all in. Yes. And then, you know, and that's the gift. 

Dr. Willow: Love it. 

Leah: I got to bring him the world. But due to my passion for travel, he probably wouldn't have discovered it if it hadn't been for me. Unless someone else, he would've dated someone else like me. It was possible. 

Dr. Willow: No, there's nobody like you, darling. 

Leah: And I think that's another thing I have to say. One of the things that helped me during my non-monogamy years was the truth when I would get kind of stuck in jealousy and in comparison. The thing that got me out of that hell over and over and over again was this one thing I would say to myself, which I really believe is true, we are all our own recipe. Like there is just nothing else on the planet that will ever be this version of Leah before or after. I am my own secret sauce. So when I go to connect with someone else, we are making our own recipe and the recipe that they make with someone else who's their own recipe can never be replicated.

It's, that's right. It's useless to compare because it's a whole different dish. So it would take me out of that drama. 

Dr. Willow: I love that. Yeah, because even as I'm, you know, on this earlier path of navigating non-monogamy, there's other people in the sphere and there's, the voice inside and then I have to question, is it my voice or is it society's voice? Or whose voice is this that's like, well, is it better with her or what is he getting with her that he's happening with me? 

Leah: You know, does she give better blowjobs. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah. Like, what is it? And it's just, it's pointless. It's useless. And then what helps me is when we get into that deep moment of presence and that deep Tantric intimacy where we are just fucking right there. Co-creating, we're co-creating something no other two people on the planet would ever be able to co-create in any other moment. And that's true with whomever I'm with.

And it's a blessing. It's a blessing.


[01:06:29] Developing a relationship to your own sexuality


Dr. Willow: We had Ian Ferguson on one of our episodes and we talked about the sexual blueprint. And I have to say there's like, there's really no better way to evolve each one of the blueprints inside of yourself, than by being with somebody who's a sexual blueprint. Like I really expand and explore that inside of myself.

Leah: Like I love that. 

Dr. Willow: Got my dirty talk on like nobody's business, you know. And then the energetic, which is my natural one. And then the kink, you know, so and so couldn't have brought me the kink and so and so couldn't have brought me the sexual, but all the different ...

Leah: Oh, I love you tying that in.

Dr. Willow: Yes. There's another opportunity within dating, or playing with non-monogamy on an intimacy level, Right. That you get to develop. It's really about you. Yes. It's really about developing you and your relationship with your own sexuality. Then you can turn it on with anyone you're with because it's inside of you. It's your choice and you know, you know it better than anyone. 

Leah: That's so good. It's like you're going on your own adventure of self-discovery and practicing intimacy and practicing boundaries and practicing truth telling. And what's so lovely about the dating space is that you're not, you don't have a lot at risk.

You know, like once you've got your years and years in, there's a little bit more on the table that feels risky to start going, okay, now I'm going to start telling you my truth. If you just lead with that, then you know that like someone is remains you can take all these risks early on because you don't, there's not a lot on the line. So go all out. Be all in with that. Yeah. Okay.


[01:08:17] Navigating the Jealousy of Others


Leah: I've got one more question that's kind of in the non-monogamy realm. Okay. And that has to do with how are you navigating the jealousy of the other women? So if there is any... 

Dr. Willow: So far it hasn't come up, so... 

Leah: oh, okay. Well, let us know. Keep us posts. I will postess. Postess?

Dr. Willow: Postess? I'll keep you posted with the mostess. Yeah. I mean, I imagine if it did, well actually a little one did come up, and what I did learn was like always check in with the exes. Even if they've been broken up for like 10 years. Just like have a quick convo. How you doing? Did you notice that we're hanging out? Is that okay with you? How are you? What's going on for you? 

Yeah, you know, more communication is better than less, that's for sure. 

Leah: So, yeah, especially if they have kids with each other. 

Dr. Willow: Yes. So I really actually did learn something in there with that and I did sit face to face, unfortunately. This woman did come up to me and was like, wow, I'm really feeling it.

Like I'm really feeling hurt and I'm really feeling shock and I'm really in this deep place. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Like I know that place. I know how shitty it feels. I'm, would never want to cause that for you. And I just didn't know what you knew or didn't know. And so that's what I learned, just like always check in with them.

And so I did get to actually use that again shortly after. Where it was another situation where there was the X and I was like, I checked in with her right away. I was like, so this is happening, how are you doing with it? Is there anything, any triggers, any emotion, anything going on? And she was like, oh no, please, here's, you know, Come to my house.

Yeah. You know? Right. So it's just every person is so different and something could have been like last week and they don't give a shit and something could have been 15 years ago and they're still having a trigger. So it's important to, again, just be present with each and every individual, especially for women, because there's this real old, ancient woman wound that a lot of women carry around. either women don't like me or Uhhuh, women are always snaking me or Right. You know, I can't trust women. Right. And so there's a big opportunity for us to all be hyperconscious about healing that, and to not be responsible for somebody else's emotions. You know, they can have their emotions.

It doesn't mean that you need to do anything about it, right? Other than just witness it. And that's enough. People just need to be seen. They need to be witnessed, and they need to be acknowledged for what they're going through, and then that helps them go through it much easier. Yeah. 

Leah: Yeah. And then, you know, when someone is emotionally not respecting boundaries, when it's the, when it's the ex who keeps on wanting to infiltrate themselves into the relationship. There are other rules that have to be abided by. 

But I'm with you, there's so much drama can be avoided if you just show up in a space of like, just respect, consideration, thoughtfulness, and I've just watched it diffuse stuff incredibly. So I think that's good advice. 

Dr. Willow: Yeah, and being kind to yourself because it's a learning process.

Yeah. So, Be gentle with yourself as well. Well, thanks sister. This was fun. Yeah. Enjoy everyone. Yeah. We'll see you on the other side. 

Leah: Love, love, love, love, love. Oh, wait, one more thing. Please tell us what you've been experiencing in your dating life. Like do you, are you tracking this energy of love versus the emotion of love?

Are you practicing non-monogamy? Are you going to try this on for size? Starting to look at dating a little differently, like looking for experiences instead of people? So with that, signing off, see you in the comments. Love, love, love. Cheers. 

Announcer: Thanks for tuning in. If the hosts seem to know what they were talking about, that's because they do.

Announcer: Leah Piper is a Tantric sex Master coach and a positive psychology facilitator. Dr. Willow Brown is both a Chinese and functional medicine doctor and a Taoist Sexology teacher. Don't forget your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.